History History- Some Know it, Some Think They Know It!

When we moved here, there were 'hot rodders' (?) hereabouts, so we attended some 'shows'...the old 'Motate to Merced' was (had been) a good one, in the old NSRA days... 6 miles away, it attracted out-of-towners and out of state guys, too.
The L.A. contingent was here en force...Lots of great times with those guys.

After the Goodguise took it over, the clientele changed. And, as for 'historians', there was little said that was accurate...
And around here, (save for a FEW good knowledgeable types) the history is distorted as hell!
"Chevy had a flathead before Ford did..."; "Chevy axles are WAY harder than Fords"
I go to Eagle Field, to save myself... and wouldn't you know, when I pull my '55 F100 into my 'special parking', there's a pair of idiots that enlighten me that my '55's a '53.
Maybe I should stay home. LOL

 

There's a reason we have two ears and one mouth, we should listen twice as much as we speak.
Some people think they know everything and want everyone to know it. Some know a lot of stuff but you have to pry it out of them. And some folks go through life never missing a chance to correct someone else or to argue over meaningless details. It takes all kinds. I'd rather talk to my dogs.
But then as I always say, " I know nothing and I can prove it"

 

The Mark IV (four) was the street big block (396/402/427/454). It was somewhat based on the Mark II aka Nascar Mystery Motor. Only a handful of MkII engineering mules and race engines were built, in 396, 409, and 427 versions. Mk I are the 348/409 and super rare 427 W engines. The Gen III big Chevys were proposed but did not actually exist. Gen V, VI, etc. all came well after the Hamb era.

I hope you told them it was a big block, but not a 396. That would really get their heads spinning. (402)

 

worth a read...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-0611-chevy-mystery-motor/

 

The people who think they know it all are a pain in the ass to those of us who do.

 

Perhaps he means Smokey Yunick. Even when you're sure you're always right! Ron

 

for years i thought Roe versus Wade was about Washingtons decision on how to get across the Delaware river.

 

I know this saying is incorrect, and I'm not bothering to look it up, but- Better to keep quiet, and look the fool, or open your mouth and solidify you are....... Too many experts out there. If I had a dollar for everyone who knew what was really right, i'de be retired.......

 

Just for clarification, I need to be educated here. You are saying that if you had an original Mark II "mystery" engine and a 427 big block production engine they would be essentially identical?

 

Smokey Yunick - not "Yunink".
Jim Wangers - not "Wagner".

Spelling and punctuation are important whether discussing history or everyday occurences.

 

I think perusing amongst the information and pics this diverse group here paints is a rather nice hopefully factual picture of what I like to see in the Hotrod/Custom vein. Collectively this site connects so many regions and yes there are conflicts but once the dust settles there is more pics facts and stories. I do know that many of you have done the walk I will never have the opportunity to experience so painting the picture really means something. Keep it coming. Thank you Hamb.

The good I see come out here is priceless...What do I have to offer...sharing of what I have gleaned from here, there and everywhere as long as it is relevant to the vintage flavor celebrated here.

 

Didn't Jr Johnson make some folks mad with that engine in early 63?
I also had an older drag race fella tell me GM had a few big blocks in the hands of drag racers around 64

 

Like hell. But, we got 'em!

 

Maybe that's my problem Bob it goes in the one ear and falls out the other side...

This www format adds interesting dynamics to conversation because its text. It's easy to miss a detail in the quick moving posts. All I can say is between the negatives there has been so many positives and trying ones best to be factually correct is the best medicine.

 

History. I need it/want it. Thanks for the post

Sent from my SM-J727T1 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

I think Junior qualified No. 1 at Daytona in a Mystery Motor ‘63 Impala, the engine was built by Ray Fox, Smokey had some for NASCAR and R&D purposes and Mickey Thompson put one it a ‘63 Stingray. Smokey built the M/T engine too.
The ‘64 drag car engines you are referring too may have been 1963 Z-11 engines, those were based on the W motor architecture, but were stroked to 427 inches, had 12.5-1 comp., a hotter cam, better heads and a two piece 2-4 intake with a separate valley cover to isolate the intake runners from the hot oil. Chevrolet built 53 Impala (no Super Sport cars) Z-11’s before the front office pulled the plug, but OTC parts were available. Many went into Chevelles and Chevy II’s and were match raced.

 

Yeah, pretty much all countries are egocentric in this way, to varying degrees. I visited Japan twice in the last 20ish years. Their Imperial War Museum offers an interesting victim-perspective timeline for what we call WWII, and I recall they had another name for. Their WWII timeline started in 1931 when they invaded Manchuria ('37is the more popularly accepted China invasion event), and ended in '45.

And my favorite souvenir I brought home? A roll-out world map with Japan, not the USA, at the center of the map. Love it. Still got it. Before that it never occurred to me how egocentered we Americans and OUR maps are!

 

Indeed! There are two things that I've long been very proud to say when they (often) apply; "I'm wrong" and "I don't know." Both are usually followed either by an apology or a promise to look something up and find the answers. Gonna teach my little boy this one.

 

While at a quick glance they would look the same, they were more 'similar' than 'identical'. The MKII was based on the W motor, although not many parts interchanged. The MKIV was a 'detail' redesign, with almost no parts interchange with the W or the MKII. Chevrolet did race the MKII at least once, but IIRC it didn't finish. None were sold to the general public.

 

I was wondering what was the frist muscle car????...

 

This is one of those knowing history deals.
Some say the 49 Olds Rocket 88. A light car with a large displacement V8. Others say the 55 Chevy because of it's lower price.
However most think it was the 64 G.T.O.

 

wow, I'm learning all kinds of neat history about the big block, that I didn't know.

I thought the Z-11 427 was based on the 409. And that the 348 and 409 are the "Mark I" engine that the Mark II followed.

And I thought the Mark II 427 "mystery motor" was a whole new engine, but shared some basic design dimensions with the Mark I, such as the basic size of the crankshaft.

And I thought that the Mark IV was the production redesign of the Mark II, and although it looks very similar, the parts don't fit the same.

I had the opportunity to touch a Mark II engine a couple years ago, so of course I did....

and I've been playing with Mark IV engines for about 40 years. Never too seriously, though.

 

The Semantics and details are really really important.
Just like spelling and punctuation.

When did the phrase "Muscle car" appear and become widely used?
One single box check on the order form got you a GTO, who was the first to implement the entire package under one box with its own nameplate?
Who was the first to at the factory install the larger engine from the larger platform car into their smaller intermediate platform car and release them to the general public for unrestricted sales? Who was everyone trying to copy and catch up with their own versions of the same concept?


Folks had been stuffing large engines into small cars for decades before they could go get one off the showroom. Factory backed racing programs had been around for a long time using the same concepts.




When did "Rat rod" show up in our vernacular?
First time I heard "rat" applied to a vehicle was towards a Harley motorcycle and that was "rat bike" but it meant not pretty and mix of parts. That was back in the early 90s. However since 1948 thru 1984 parts are very interchangeable it's really easy to do.

 

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

History is what gets into books, often has little to do with what actually happened.

 

I know there was some crude junk out there Ron, but to say every early stockcar was junk based on a few Outlaw tracks is just as wrong as saying all hot rods were junk base on one or two that a teenager in the fifties built who didn't know any better.

Very well built cars of the 50's

 

I stand corrected. However my main point was this man is hell bent that there was no engine that resembled the big block existed.

I had read once many years ago that the Mark II used 409 style internals.

This goes to my point a man who knows history!

 

how about the first year for the chevy v8? or the ford A model?