Hot Rods Early Hemi's and Manual transmissions

I have a question about how to adapt either a chevy or mopar manual transmission (that is fairly reliable) to a '55 291 desoto hemi. I recently aquired the engine, which came with the original bell housing and torque converter (I believe it had an automatic trans of some sort originally). I was wondering if the bolt pattern on the back of the bell housing that connects the gear box to the housing would bolt up to a manual transmission of some sort w/o the need of an adapter. I would like to put a 4 speed chevy of some sort or a mopar A833 trans gear box. Do I need to bite the bullet and get the adapter and all the componets that stay in the bell housing, and what all might I need to change in the housing? Thank you

 

You will need a manual tranny bell housing and flywheel. Go with an A833. I believe all early hemi engines have the same engine to bell housing pattern, so that opens up the search a bit. As others will say this has been covered more than once, if you'd like to do a search.
-Dave

 

thank you dave i'll do my research and see what i can find

 

I'm not positive on the Desoto's but on my 241 Dodge I took the Hemi flywheel and had it turned down to accept a 318 ring gear and then made a 1/2" aluminium spacer and put an A833 behind it. That's it. Everything bolted up. I would think it would be the same case for a Desoto.

 

The DeSoto and Dodge ( and short block Chrysler) all have the same crank and block dimensions.

Ray

 

If there was a Cheaper, Easier or Better way to do it I would have found it by now. I use a complete 340-360 Flywheel and Clutch unit, just drilled the 8 bolt pattern into the Flywheel. No machine work for Ring Gear required.
The Wizzard

 

See if you can get ahold of 73RR or TR Waters here on the board. Either one should be able to provide the information you need.
Why not a small block Mopar scatter shield adapted to your Desoto with the A833 bolted to it. I mean if your going to be building a hot rod.....
-Dave

 

The easy way out is to just buy an adapter package and mount a 318-340 bellhousing. This would use an expensive 426Hemi 130tooth flywheel. Also, if you use the 360 bell, then you will need the 143 tooth flywheel. This would then use a modern peanut starter. Easy stuff....all except for the check writing part.
Can you make your own adapter ? Yup, if you have a mill and a lathe.
Can you use some combo of oem parts and not buy the adapter? Yup, there are several threads on using one of the late 50's bells that have the appropriate depth to work with the A-833. The best suited bell will be found with BOTH the L6 block pattern AND the V-8 block pattern. Next best is one of the truck bells but, they are heavy.
Here is pic of Kerry's set-up:


Look through my website for more information.

 

That’s a good idea using the small block flywheel but wouldn’t you have to stick with the 273,318,340 ones and stay away from the 360 because of the external balancing issue? Or could you take the 360 flywheel and have it neutral balanced?


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Heres the back of the engine bellhousing & all


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That's a bell housing for a Powerflite and, depending on various dimensions, might be adaptable for a manual trans conversion. It would probably require using a hydraulic throw out bearing, but they are readily available.

Ray

 

Ya' know, that might work. "73RR" on here said in one of my other threads that the A-833 transmission has one of the longer input shafts so it might work. A couple of quick measurements would help a lot. You might be able to get by with just a simple plate adapter. It's worth a shot. Like Ray says, you'll probably need to run a hydraulic throwout bearing, but it looks like there's plenty of room.

It's possible that this is already being done. I have seen a few of these Powerflite adapters on eBay from time to time. They were all priced in the $200-$300 range, which I never understood. Maybe somebody knows something we don't. (Yet).

 

On my 291 and A833 I used a later model Chrysler bellhousing (aluminum), billet flywheel for a hemi, and the factory “spacer” plate between the engine and trans. Bob Wilson (makes the Lincoln brakes) put it all together for me so I’m not real sure what he did to make it all work.

His little red T roadster has the same setup in it and it’s been cross country countless times.

 

You bring up a very good point. Any time your mixing and matching you should deal with Balance. I tend to have it done during the Machine process of the total motor package. There are so many ways to Skin this Cat I generally don't get into real technical info. For sure you can just Visa a total package and for most, that's the best way to go. For those of us that do more with our hands we end up spending a little more time and end up with a few more Nickles to spend on other parts. I've been very lucky to be surrounded by some very Smart people and have been able to get the best Bang for my $$$.
The Wizzard

 

I have also seen those "spacer plates" going on eBay for what I thought was ridiculous money for what they were. I think I'm starting to see something I wasn't aware of before.

 

I* think I have a couple of those spacer plates hiding in the shop. Maybe I should try to get my old 291 back and stick my A-833 for some old school fun . Mmmmm

 

I've done a couple with GM transmissions, one De Soto with a S10 5 speed and a baby Dodge with a Saginaw 4 speed by using a kit from Wilcap. Not sure how much it hurt the wallet, both customer supplied but both went together with no issues and no hunting parts/ pieces.

 

I have another question since I dont know much other than its a 1955 desoto model S21-100; 4bbl 291 hemi, but I was wondering, from the pictures does it have donovan valve covers? I cant quite tell. or if there were any other things that I may want to look out for.

 

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The valve covers look O.E. and someone has added the breathers on to them. The covers still look to have the spark plug wire cover hold downs. Did you get the plug wire covers too? Some people like them others don't.
-Dave

 

If you go with the A833, be aware that NPG also made an A833 with overdrive for GM which was used in some 19821-1987 Chevy (and GMC, presumably) and there were (2) styles: One needed a "special" aluminum bell housing that mounted on a SBC engine and had the Mopar transmission bolt pattern and the other style A833 transmission had the GM bolt pattern and mounted up to a standard GM bell.

I'm not aware that Chrysler Corp ever used the A833 with OD.

 

The DeSoto valve covers were ‘no name’ covers, with Firedome (or Fireflite ?) Eight embossed in the spark plug wire covers. I have one of those wire covers somewhere.

Ray

 

Yes, mother MOPAR also had the 3 speed/O.D. A833 in the seventies to the early(?) eighties.
-Dave

 

No i dont think it comes with the covers- the person im buying from knows little about the engine considering he bought a property and it was in dry storage, from the looks of it, maybe someone started a rebuild considering everything looks like its been either hot tanked or baked. The engine will most likely have to be milled and honed (just to be on the safe side) and person preference i like the hemis with no wire covers


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