Hot Rods Trying to set lash the proper way on a SBC 350!

With air cleaner off look down into the into the carb while pump is on to see if fuel is spilling in.
See if you can borrow or buy a fuel pressure gauge to verify actual fuel pressure, I have had several mechanical and electric fuel pumps with built in regulators go high psi from using fuel mixed with ethanol. This could be why it runs good one day and ugly the next.

 

I can honestly say that I have never done that, wait a min, wait a min, ya I did, back in 1958 or was it 1959, then I LEARNED , how to NOT do it that way. I do it the same way as CHEVROLET does or did on EACH -n- EVERY one they EVER built. Even on a record holding DRAG car .33 lash hot, (back in the day)...lol

 

I agree here, but our friend should have been able to get it close enough to not pop, by the way he described his procedure. Still, he seems to be wondering about the cam lobes.
We're assuming it's a hyd. roller, but we don't know for sure, do we?
Still, for the life of me, I can't figure out how someone couldn't tell whether he had lash at the rocker and /or push rod, or whether he had hand tightened the poly lock down to zero lash...pumped up lifter or not.

 

I have lots to do...I dont mind triple checking it all. First step...I will find true TDC, it was a pain to find but hey...gotta be 100%. I will make a stop gap using an old spark plug, drill out the center and attach a bolt. Then redo the dizzy to point 6 degrees before spark on harmonic balancer and let you all know.

 

Mark, let me explain my process...when setting lash by hand cranking the crank, I removed all plugs, I did EOIC on every cylinder by verifying that the hydraulic lifter was on the base of the cam, not on the lobe. I then backed off the screw but, made sure push rod had slack and that I could push the rod up and down so that I knew the hydraulic lifters were not filled with oil. I then made sure all up and down movement was gone, after verifying zero lash, I added my 1/2 turn and locked the poly set screw. This is where some were saying how do u know if lifters weren't primed still? But this is how I did it...prior to setting lash on my engine running, which is how they are set now! Hope that helps.

 

Again should be fine. Probably not your problem then.

 

I think we can be confident it is a hydraulic roller, he has pushrods that are 7.300 long.
Flat tappet SBC cams will use a 7.800 p/r, and on AFR heads you would probably use 7.900.

 

Yes. So now we can assume that he didn't wipe out a cam lobe by bottoming out a lifter and holding a valve open, but I'm not sure we can assume that he didn't ding a valve in the process.

 

Ok, I know you guys may be getting tired of this thread...but in the end, I will write a whole post as to how this adventure ends...happy or sad! I will do a write up.

Current state, pulled plugs and used a piston stop to verify the TDC mark, it is correct. Pulled valve covers to check valve lash...no play, hand cranked engine over to watch rockets and they all move and look the same. Pulled distributor out, meshed distributor with rotor pointed at number 1 cylinder, hand cranked engine over till dizzy dropped in, buttoned her up and went to fire and started shooting fuel out the carb. I was so sure that pointing rotor to number 1 cylinder would have fired right up, since I replaced pushrod and rocker... I would have bet money. But I guess advancing the rotor 12 degrees is the only way I could get this truck to fire up...so that is what I am going to do, I will let you all know how it goes.

 

Keep going brother.... You are getting the experience of a lifetime

 

I have to see how this turns out, so I am subscribed!

 

Did you verify you have a normal firing order cam and not one of those 4/7 swap cams? Or possibly an 8/5 cam swap? Highly unlikely, but if you purchased the engine(vehicle) and did not have it built then you can never be sure what the engine actually is until further inspection is done.

Spinning the crank 720°, 90° at a time, can be annoying but at least you will know for sure that your camshaft firing order is typical SBC. If you are not on #1 you will be on #6 and can just follow along with the anticipated firing order of intake closing. Get a notepad and mark down your cylinders as they go. Then verify that your plug wires are routed to the correct cylinders from the distributor, and that the rotor is pointing to the correct tower.

Trust, but verify.

BTW, did you check to see if your timing chain is sloppy? If the chain is, this will retard the cam, if the cam was ground with retarded timing and then installed retarded via adjustable crank gear your going to have some funny running issues, which may require a higher than normal idle to keep it running. If the timing chain is sloppy enough the chain could slip and cause even further cam retardation. This would also cause weird(excessive) timing, fueling(reversion) and ignition(fouled plugs) issues.

You've probably noticed this, but when you line up the distributor before dropping it in, the helical cut of the gear will rotate the rotor when it drops down. To get the rotor where you want it, mechanically, you have to put the rotor back a tooth or two.
Depending on the cap(small points or HEI) the rotor will be ~ in the 4 O'Clock or 5 O'Clock position(Bellhousing 12 O'Clock, timing chain 6 O'Clock. Then the cap is a little kicked off from being 'square'(octagon really) to the valve covers for proper timing. Obviously the timing light is what tells you where to clock the distributor.

Shooting fuel out how? Leaking, over flowing, jets/mists of directed fuel?
Ejecting fuel out like the accelerator pump is shooting it straight up in a jet of fuel?
Or is it more of a misting/fog above the carb?
Where is it coming out of? Venturis, bores?

A video or picture would be really helpful in this case.

Usually misting at idle is caused by a timing issue, usually 180° out distributor or cam timing allowing compression pressure to blow out the intake(reversion).

What rpm is this 12° reading being taken at?
The 'classic' 6-8° base timing is based on a relatively mild engine that idles at 5-750rpm.
If your engine is running at 1000rpm or more at idle then your base timing is going to also be more advanced.

Biggest problem we(the forum) are having with helping you diagnose is that we are not there, we do not have the engine/vehicle in front of us.
Posting a few pictures(thousand words) as to what you are seeing greatly helps in online diagnostics. Something that may seem descriptively correct to you may be wrong.

I would highly suggest writing down or making notes so you know you are not repeating the same process, for your own sanity. Blue painters tape and a black marker are great for this. This will also help you verify what is what, and what you will need to verify in future. Documentation is great, you can walk away from a project and then get back to it when you have time without having to remember what you did last.

Unless you don't like people, stating where you are located may get a member or three over to help you out. I've met a couple over the years, generally its a good bunch over here at the HAMB. Characters for sure but always helpful.

 

From your other thread,

From this thread

Having trouble figuring out where youre at now

 

How does this get the rotor pointing at #1 when #1 is at TDC - you've just moved things. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I've never heard of this so am reluctant to say it is wrong, but I'm sure we'll learn soon! I set the motor at tdc on the compression stroke and then install the distributor - this goes in not pointing at #1, but once it has meshed it will have turned such that it is pointing at #1. Turning the motor is not required one sat at tdc.

I can't recall whether you've said you've moved the distributor while the engine is running, which is the usual thing to do. You should be able to have it running by ear before needing the light.

Chris

 

You also need to align the oil pump drive shaft to the distributor or it won't drop in at the correct spot.

 

After going over this complete thread and reading all of your comments I can see that you are pretty confused. That is certainly understandable. here is a very simple way to maybe at least get it running.

Since the dizzy is already in just leave it alone, no need to pull it out again. With the number one plug out stick your finger in the spark plug hole and crank the engine over slowly. when the compression push's your finger out of the hole, stop right there. Pull the distributer cap (cap only) and look and see which terminal the rotor is pointing to, that is your #1 terminal "NOW". Now run your plug wires from that point 18436572. Now the damn thing should start. I don't care one little bit which terminal on the cap it turns out to be #1 as long as the one you start attaching the plug wires in the correct order. After you get it running then you can time it and try to figure what else may be going on. Until it is running you are just pissing up a rope.

 

Picking up on my earlier post I've just seen this and learned something!

I'll try that sometime.

I do it more like this, but didn't realise the 11/5 o'clock thing!

Chris

 

About 15:30 watch this young man drop the distributer .....

 

Thank you for this long and concise post, my Dad's coming over this weekend, and staying with me for 9 days, If I dont get it started by my birthday, we will be pulling the pulley and cover to see what this chain and cam specs are that you all speak of...never seen this part of an engine, but I know its neccessary. I will post more pics from now on and show you all exactly what is going on...I have felt confident in what I learned, but the ideas and changing scenarios from one suggestion to another has shot my confidence in the face...f'in sucks . I do live in Maui, anyone who does live here is welcomed to have some drinks and help me for sure...I have put swear words together that actually made me say WTF? but I do thank you all for the encouragement...like I said, I will do a write up, as soon as I win this battle! I will be answering all your questions...I hope.

 

I was going to go back on this post...this is what got my truck running when I hand cranked the engine to TDC mark on harmonic balancer going clock wise. I then went counterclockwise to about 12 degrees before TDC, stopped there, dropped the dizzy in and meshed the rotor as it pointed to #1 cylinder and continuing to hand crank the engine till the distributor dropped into the oil pump notch. The rotor was pointing kinda between #1 and #3 cylinder, but it started right up. I did not go ahead with this as I am trying to do things as instructed...but this worked.

 

Ok, the second video in this post is where I am at right this moment. I first hand cranked the motor...again to set it to the TDC mark on my harmonic balancer (verified to be true via piston stop) I went ahead and grabbed my long ass screw driver, Set the oil pump gear at 11/5 o'clock. Dropped the dizzy in while pointing the rotor to the second bolt on the manifold as instructed and it dropped in as he said it would. It was pointing just a little before #1 cylinder...I was again like....YES! put all the plugs in, triple checking the wires and all were correct and went to fire it and it blew gas through the carb, with hood propped open, gas was sprayed under the hood...no explosion but it did smoke...so that is where I am at now...so weird.

 

I can do this!

 

It won't necessarily fire right up at that position, but it might. What you need to do next is rotate the distributor a few degrees (either way) and try firing up again, or you can do that while a helper cranks the motor. No disassembly required, just adjustment.

Chris

 

gas through he carb is common if the timing is close but off.
Turn he motor over and try moving the distributor forward and backward as suggested above by Happydaze

 

Ok, so 31 vicky with a Hemi sent this pic from my previous thread on installing a SBC distributor in the 2nd set of comments https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...h-setting-distributor-in-sbc-350-hei.1095475/ would you guys advance the dizzy from here...or retard it, the fuel squirt is freaking me out. It does sound like it wants to start atleast... it goes put, put, pu put and then woosh (fuel spray out the top).

 

I would advance it -turn toward the front
once it turns over you can move the dizzy while running to get it close enough to check with a timing light

 

Is the exhaust stopped up by chance?

 

If that is your motor you better put a plug in the hole behind the manifold where the oil sender goes or you will have a gusher. Maybe you have already.

 

Ta #ELL with IOWA i'll be right over...
To much work, to much thinking, complete waste of time worthless. GM/Chevrolet never turned an engine over and over and over to achieve complete setting.Timing chain (installed) dot to dot *IS* 6 up, set 8 of 16, turn once timing tab back to timing tab, set 8 more (obvious as to what ones are not set) set those. *DONE* Call me when you have ACTUALLY done both. Yes there IS more than one way to skin a cat, but why go around the block making 3 rights when your already standing there. An then you could set 1 at a time, or the EIEIO (farm pun) method given to people (that buy there cam's)as a way to get it done.I coulda set 16 valves in LESS time than it took to type this out... . We run engines over 10k in drag (as well as other) applications, NEVER experienced any issues or problems. Once the lifter is *OFF* the base circle your there(ready to set) GO...