This traditional hot rod has a Brookville body on it, so you can all quit defending the poor ill equipped youngster from 1950. This is a recent build and has some of the worst botched welding I've ever had to deal with. Sent from my SM-G935F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I'm not one to get caught up in the technical aspects of life BUT , Joe Schmoe Hotrodder had access to a gas welding outfit so in reality that's what was used to remove and install EVERYTHING. Riveting stuff in??? Come on now, get real guys, I know for a fact that my Dad didn't rivet any parts in and He did his hot rod time in the 50's. Sometimes a person can be too anal. Mitch.
A bit OT, but I used to inspect welds on structural steel in construction. I've turned down welds done by certified welders. Their argument, "I've being doing it that way for 20 years..." My response, "well you've been doing it wrong all those years..." I'm lucky to still be alive.
Hot rivets do provide a "tighter" joint as when they are red hot the metal is expanded so once they are bucked and have cooled down they do actually squeeze the two parts together as the rivet shrinks back down. A welded joint does not provide the same clamping force. For a... riveting.... read about the history, design, and properties of rivits check this out: http://www.vub.ac.be/ARCH/ae-lab/ga....Collette_Riveted_Connections_2014_Online.pdf This is not to say riveting is necessarily a stronger or better method of joining two pieces of metal just it can definitely be argued that riveting provides a tighter joint than welding.
If you are building a street driven car, riveting will be ok if you know how to do it properly with the proper quality rivets. Usually many of the rivet holes are oversize after taking out old rivets. This requires drilling the holes clean and oversize shank rivets. Riveted chassis are commonly known as "flexible flyers". (named after the famous snow sled) If you are building a car to be raced, weld it. Weld ALL frame joints. You want the chassis to be as rigid as possible.
Then it sounds more like twisted up old frame material piled on by lots of bad fab and bad welding rather than "rivet vs. welding" controversy. There's nothing wrong with welded in crossmembers if it's done correctly, because there'd never be a reason to have to cut it out and re do all the work. We've all dealt with prior "work" done on cars. I'm guessing you bought it (from across the pond) from pics or someone eyeballing it for you? A disadvantage for you for sure.
I didn't buy it. It's a customers car. If it had been done properly in the first place it'd be ok. I feel bad about having to chop up what was a perfectly good Model-A front crossmember. Welding might be ok if the whole frame is done and done properly. But here I've got an original 32 frame all riveted but with a solid welded front crossmember. Sent from my SM-G935F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
@Ebbspeed - 3spd's reply is most of what I was going to say. That said, there's some good thoughts on this thread. 31Vicky makes the point of comparing a fox to a fish, and that's not far off. Within your post above, there are specifics outlined even where riveting is stronger - dissimilar metals being one, another being aluminum. Most aluminum is clad, meaning aluminum alloy in the center, with pure aluminum on the outside of the sheet and welding clad aluminum can be very difficult and time consuming, so riveting is often preferred. While I still stand by my statement, this thread got me thinking. Mostly, riveting and welding are specific applications where one might work better/be the better option than the other, and in industry, some have changed due to advances in technology and the changing workforce. While we sit here and debate which is "better," often it comes down to which is cheaper. Riveting in structural scenarios requires 2 guys, air, bucking bars, and hot rivet tools, while welding requires 1 guy and arguably less moving parts in his gear. Similarly in auto manufacturing (my day job). In aircraft manufacturing however, the complexity of welding aluminum means the 2 guys and their gear to rivet is still cheaper. For this particular instance, rivets in a frame where only 3 rivets are used, not only is that insufficient by most riveting standards, I would classify it as weaker than a fully welded section. Personally, I'd never rivet a frame I'm modifying; there simply isn't enough surface area.
'31, I thought of this when building my '30 sedan, The front cross member was bolted it and some bolts were too small for the holes and some were missing, as I was boxing the frame I would not be able to get back in to tighten bolts if they came loose and I was not going to use rivets. long story short, I welded it back in along with the boxing plates. I look at it from time to time and have found no cracks so I guess I'm good. Hope I did not mess it up for the "next guy".
If she had a daughter, she definitely was no virgin. Ha! Great story [emoji41] Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Personally, I have no consideration for the next guy when building MY cars. I build what I want, and the next guy can do what he wants with my cars when I'm cold and dead! For what I want out of my hot rods welding cross members is the way to go.
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