Projects New Project: 1953 Oldsmobile

Could a more substantial rubber-insulated mount help to reduce the transmission of sound through the frame/body?

 

In town is usually 180-190.


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Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. It’s crazy loud. I can hear it over the exhaust Cutouts. Haha


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If it runs cooler around town it sounds like there is a air flow issue or the water pump is spinning too fast,I had a 53 with a 59 371 and it never got close to 220.

 

Water pump is fairly recent. I’ve been questioning the thermostat, but it seems like once it’s open, it shouldn’t make a difference on the highway.


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Running hot at highway speeds may indicate that the fan shroud is restricting airflow. You need the shroud at lower speeds. One solution is to bore holes in the shroud (maybe 1 1/2 - 3 inches in diameter ?) and fabricate some "flaps" and place them over the holes on the engine side of the shroud. The fan suction will hold the flaps closed when airflow from the fan is required. When the shroud becomes a restriction the flaps are pushed open to allow more airflow. On a separate issue. There was an article, I believe in Hot Rod Magazine, about a guy who replaced his gas tank and started having problems with the gas getting hot. Don't remember much about it now. Hopefully someone can address the possibility of the gas tank in greater detail regarding heat. Thank you for sharing your efforts to resolve this problem.

 

Simply, the engine gets hotter at highway speeds because of lack of airflow THROUGH the radiator.
Olds cuts through the air, but at the cost of not diverting air through the radiator. Need to create a low pressure area behind the radiator/under the car to extract all that hot air.

Currently the car cuts through the air(great for speed), however there is a boundry layer, or cocoon, of hot air that stagnates under the hood and under the car. This causes the engine to run hot and the hot air that does meander on back heats up the fuel tank as well. Cruising on the highway is probably one of the least load demanding conditions, it should not be overheating.

That new fangled pump is forcing the fuel forward, but you still have a heat problem, and that fuel pump is not going to tolerate the heat and will crap out on you.

Fix the airflow problem through the radiaor, install an airdam... damnit.

 

Had another thought on this. If it was addressed earlier, I missed it. The lower radiator hose may be collapsing at higher temps and prolonged highway RPMs. Check to make sure the lower hose has the required anti collapse spring in it.

 

Mike(s), I played around with it on the highway today. If I stay between 60-65, engine will stay around 190. It’s when I try to cruise above 70 the temp starts going up. I’ll play around with the shroud and see what happens. Fuel system is still working well. Pressure is staying constant and the filter remains full.



However... I came up with a new problem today. Hooray!

All this highway driving over the last week wore out a u-joint. Unfortunately it’s pressed in, so I’ll have to wait till tomorrow to take it to a shop and get it swapped out.




I seriously might as well take on a car payment with all the cash I’m throwing at this thing right now. Not giving up yet, just whining.


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"It’s when I try to cruise above 70 the temp starts going up". It is very easy to eliminate the possibility of a weak hose. When the car is up to heat, turn off the engine and squeeze the lower radiator hose. if it is spongy, a previous owner left out the spring in the hose. I can sympathize with you on the ongoing repairs. I had a lot of maintenance on an OT Vette some years ago. The low point was when I replaced the ring gear on the flywheel. When I tried to move the car, a rear half shaft u joint had frozen. I guess personal circumstances and desire dictate how much time, effort and money someone invests in getting a car reliable and fun. Whatever you decide, it is right for you. I admire your tenacity and drive.

 

I replaced the hose whenever I had the water pump swapped out, it had the spring in it. I’ll double check just to be sure. Just to save some hole cutting, I may just pull the fan shroud off and hit the highway to see what happens.


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I always try the easy ones first. Usually not the problem. Good plan on the shroud. Good luck.

 

On all my 455 Olds engines I run a shroud, and large electric fan on front side of rad. 180-185 in heavy ,hot traffic,170-175 on the highway

 

Have you checked to see if the filter in the inlet of the quadrajet is ok ??
By the way the 371 in my 57 will not go over 170-175 deg no matter how or where i drive it.

 

Sweet Jesus. If it’s not one thing guys... actually, the last few weeks have been great. Car has been running good, no issues with fuel delivery. Temps still get high, but I haven’t had much time to mess with it.

Now it’s alternator issues. Like, this should simple, shouldn’t it?

I have been through a few different alternators now. Each one has behaved differently. The one that was showing issue, couldn’t keep a consistent voltage without staying on the throttle. Got a new one, it wouldn’t charge at all. Swapped again, still had issues with the regulator, but kept it thinking something might be wrong on the car.

So, I changed out all the grounds, and ran new power wire from the alternator to the battery. Still no improvement. Eventually, voltage drops to 12.3ish. Alternator is gone. I go get another one hoping O’Reilly’s just sucks. Mostly the same issue, but I can’t get the voltage above 13.2 when reving.

It’s a 3 wire alternator, so I get excited when there’s no power at 2 of the wires. I run some no one, zero improvement. Now I’m about to lose my god damn mind.

I have tried disconnecting everything I can think of to check the alternator on it’s own, hoping something might be grounding out where it shouldn’t. Still nothing.

What in the mother effing hell am I missing?


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I’m somehow even more confused now, because I was pretty effing confused before.

I tried this:


Alternator reads next to no improvement and then starts smoking. Holy shit. I’m so tired of chasing gremlins.


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Electrical issues can be aggravating for certain. Just for the process of elimination have you tried changing out the battery to eliminate it? I have seen a bad cell in a battery cause many issues. Also, make darn certain that the battery cables are really clean. A high resistance here from corrosion etc can interfere with the operation.

 

Battery and cables are all new, so is the starter.

I just picked up a single wire alternator and I’m having the exact same damn issue. This has to mean something is grounding out somewhere, but I never smell any electrical burn of any kind. I’ve disconnected all of the stuff I’ve added since getting the car. I am completely stumped right now.

The problem started at low idle and has only gotten worse as time goes on. I’m going to get under the car and check out power going to the starter next. Any other ideas are very welcomed.


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Can someone tell me what these two boxes are and what they do?



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Heat will kill an alternator and alternators cool themselves by pulling air from the back of the case and then blowing out the front or more correctly from the edge of the fan blades to cool. If there is insufficient air flow at the back of the alternator it will overheat and will not properly charge. Usually limiting charging.

You may want to recheck your wiring harness again.

I'm guessing with a GEN the V.R. may have only been a three terminal unit. Which makes it a fixed voltage system. Simply you adjust the gap on the V.R. which gives a desired spec'd voltage and that's that.

With the internally regulated alternator you will want to attach the sense wire from the alternator (T2) to a main junction where most of the accessories are fed their power.
With the installation of the 455, this main junction is sometimes regulated to the terminal on the starters solenoid. So this may be where your current main junction is. Although if you can locate a better point in the system under dash that would make the system more effective for actual power requirements/demand.

If the electrical system was simple, such as a pre-war that only really had headlights and ignition as the main power drains, then this would be fine.
However putting the sense wire on the battery terminal is going to have the alternator undercharge on a larger(more electrical accessories) vehicle. Albeit the system was designed to expect some voltage drop so as to prevent the alternator from overcharging the battery. It senses a desired system voltage, the alternator is just going to stay in a normal charging mode.

When watching voltage of a vehicle, ideally it is with the car in gear lights and every major accessory on, you will want to see the alternator maintain a given voltage. Normally you would note what the system voltage is with the car idling in Park with no draw and then place the vehicle in Drive, chock the wheels and turn on all the large power draws and see if the regulator keeps the voltage the same or increases slightly.

Sometimes chain stores get a batch of bad product. Last year the local Otterzone had a bad batch of BMCs. They were stacked counter high when I returned one I had picked up. Cheap V.R.s and randomly thrown together armatures into who knows what case will get you a Frankenstein alternator with unknown charging capabilities.

It would be helpful to know what has been done to the electrical system.

Lower box is voltage regulator.
Upper box is either the horn relay or starter solenoid.

If you are running a 10SI or 12 SI internally regulated alternator with this older V.R. you are going to have some strange electrical issues. Need to bypass the external V.R. this is probably what is causing your electrical issues.

More pictures of your electrical system.

One wire alternator is not going to function well on your car. You need a voltage sensing unit to better supply power for your cars electrical needs. Especially if you are running that electrical fuel pump. Leave the one wires to simple machines like older tractors and certain types of race cars.

 

Box on the bottom looks like your voltage regulator. Top could be horn relay?

 

So do I likely need to replace the regulator? Is this the correct diagram for my setup?



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Also, could I test the idea of a bad regulator by unplugging mine, and try the one wire alternator? I’m guessing the regulator when switched on my the ignition is grounding out, keeping the alternator from charging properly.

If that were the case, I’d go back to the three wire.


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go back to a factory alt and a new regulator for the same application. Make sure the regulator is grounded good if required. Adjusting a regulator is covered here for reference:

The horn relay was often used for a tie point for B+ from the battery which may explain why there is several heavy 10 ga wires attached on the relay.

 

So, I’ve got a new 3 wire alternator in and a new regulator. I’m still at the same issue. Really dumb question, do I want the indicator light off or on?


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If you are running an internal regulated alternator, be it a 3 wire or a 'race' 1 wire unit, the external V.R. needs to be removed from the system. It's similar to running two proportional valves on a brake system, it will function but not anywhere near optimal.

Problem you have now, from what you've posted, is that you have an internal regulated alternator connected to the external regulated system. If you want to run internal regulator then you need to disable and bypass the external V.R. which is not hard.
In the above diagram it's easy to break down. However you will need to verify on your own vehicle where and what the terminals actually are.
-BAT wire stays the same, it goes to the battery.
-GRD wire is not really used as it was to keep both reg and alt at the same potential. On an internal V.R. Alt this is the case. Although it is good to have the case properly grounded to the body, especially if there isn't a proper engine ground strap.
-R>2 wire will become the new T2 wire. Jumper 2 to 3 on the External V.R. harness. This now is your new sense wire or T2 terminal on an internal V.R. Alt.
-F>F wire will become the new T1 wire. Jumper F to 4 on the External V.R. harness.
This now is your new GEN light circuit.
I would not cut any wires yet, as if you ever want to restore or return the car to an External V.R. system you simply just have to plug and play.

As for internal vs external. Unless you just hate external V.R.s or are going to need more than ~70A alternator, there is nothing really beneficial to an internal regulated Alt outside of a 'cleaner' look.

*Looking at your Ex V.R. pic it looks like it is a four wire unit.*

Since the EX V.R. is not bypassed while using the INT V.R. there is probably some seriously weirdness going on with your electrical system.
Again you have a voltage regulator regulating already regulated voltage output of the alternator. Since I've never hooked up a system like that, who knows what the alternators output is doing. The alternator may be trying to function as though there is no battery in place. This will automatically kill the alternator.

If you have not modified the original harness, you should be able to simply use an external V.R. ALT in place and hook up your existing F, R, GRD, and BAT terminals to the cars original harness/external V.R. and be good to go.

A one wire alternator is NOT the fix it ticket and is NOT the way to properly power up a street car. A one wire is actually pretty crap for a street car. They are usually self exciting which requires the engine be revved to ~2Krpm to initiate the field coils and begin charging. And also may turn off any charging below 2Krpm to prevent battery drain when the engine has stopped.

If you do go through with properly switching over to an Int V.R. Alt system the 3 wire sensing system is the BEST system for a street car.
Check out http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml for more indepth technical information.

 

I'm a bit confused.
Do you have a 3 wire 10SI/12SI internally regulated alternator in conjucntion with your external voltage regulator? This will not work.
External Alt has a square plug out the back of the case.
Internal Alt has a rectangular plug out of the side of the case.
What are you using to reference as a replacement alternator for your '53?

GEN light should be on with Key On, Engine Off.
This is showing that the field in the alternator is not producing voltage. difference of potential allows the lamp to light.
GEN light should be off with the Key On, Engine Running.
This is showing that the field in the alternator is creating a charge voltage and the system is charging to the same voltage or more of the battery.

Pictures of your current wire harness, alternator, battery, and connections between them will greatly help us, help you.

 

The regulator and alternator are from the same type of vehicle. I’ve double checked, the alternator is not internally regulated.

While I agree the 1 wire alt shouldn’t be a permanent fix, that fact is, it didn’t fix anything, which suggest an entirely different issue. That’s why I’ve gone back to a 3 wire alt with an external regulator. (I even had the 1 wire tested to be sure it wasn’t faulty)

Something else somewhere has to be wrong in the car. The wiring in this car is absolute garbage. It may be time to rip it all out and start fresh, but that’s a bitch to do as it’s my daily. I can’t keep borrowing cars, and I can’t afford another.

 

Here’s where I’m at as of tonight:

Looks like my battery was bad, kinda. It kept starting the car and needed a charge, but when I took it to get charged, it wouldn’t take it.

So, new battery and alternator in, I’m back to where I was a month ago. Light throttle, and alternator hits 14.2. If I let off, it’s right at 13.

So, I’m back to the regulator. It’s not hooked up 100% yet. I’m missing the capacitor for the ground. Is that 100% necessary? I’ve got one ordered, it’ll be here tomorrow after noon. Hopefully once everything is hooked up, I’m good to go.


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Voltage is not going to stay pegged at 14.2, it will change upon demand. As long as the voltage stays up for demand it's ok if it drops down at idle with no load. Since it stays at 13V I am not too concerned. If it drops lower or is the same as battery voltage, when engine is off, then there is a problem.

If the voltage drops dramatically then there may be an issue but some systems, from the factory, are pretty lacking and will need some improvements. As is. I would start by getting back to basics, clean all connections, add some Ox-Guard on cleaned connections, any questionable connections repair. I personally dislike the factory self tapping screws for ground connections. Replace these with a proper nut bolt connection to properly clamp the terminal to the body for a solid ground.

Check all the connections at the V.R. and inspect the wiring for corrosion. It looks like everything was painted over. Make sure the terminals are not covered in paint. Pull the spade connectors out of the V.R. connector one at a time and check both the crimped connection and wire quality. These can become heavily corroded and the wire may only be a few strands attached. Replace if damaged. Clean the terminals on the V.R. as well and add a dab of Ox-Guard after, this will stave off future corrosion.

Capacitor is to reduce system noise, don't think it will cause too many charge problems, mostly you will hear it in the radio. Cap to GRD is a high frequency filter, since the alternator creates high frequency AC output this will create noise. Cap will prevent this noise in the system.