Technical Rebel Wire Harness diagrams and wiring info

Couple pictures of a simple electrical panel built for a "basic" hot rod as I was referring to in my earlier post (most hot rods I'm involved with don't get an actual panel). But; much more complicated than this it may very well be worth your while to start with a quality aftermarket kit.

 

b

As long is there is some basic structure to where general concepts are I think guys will and should be happy with that. You need to remember (and so do the members here) that you are kindly giving your time and energy to provide a FREE source of information. You're not writing a book or building a website that people are paying for. If they have to do some digging so be it and if they don't like it well.....

 

Ok guys, I realized I've probably got a whole wiring job through doing tech help on my phone, so here it is. YES, most of this is on my phone, believe it or not. I'll probably have to come back to this and keep editing, but I'm going to try it.

Let's say you're starting your wiring job and that harness just isn't jumping out of the box and installing itself...So it's time to get started. What do you do? Well...A good first step is to mount the fuse panel. We've just seen some good pictures on that. Thanks IowaMercMan!

So you make up a bracket to mount your panel, or just bolt it to the inside of the firewall or a kick panel. Just make sure your switch and dash wires are still going to reach. That's a good start!





Then you can start running your bundles of wire. Front section: firewall forward wiring, Rear section: Rear lighting, fuel sender, etc. Dash Section: switch bundles (leaving the wires bundled until you get ready to wire the switches). So then you just pick a place to start and shorten things up and terminate them as you go. So let's start with the rear, it's only a couple wires usually: Left and right rear turns, Tail lights, fuel gauge sender.


So you lay those wires out and get them routed to where they go: rear bulbs, and the fuel tank.
When you're wiring your bulbs, you just wire them for their function. Most of the setups are going to use 1157 bulbs, which are dual filament, they have a bright side and a dim side. The bright side is for Turn signal & Brake, the dim side is for your running lights. I don't worry about the old wire colors anymore, I just bench test them to see which is the bright wire and which is dim. So just connect them and see:

These are 3 wire sockets, which means they have a bright wire, dim wire, and a ground. You might have 2 wire sockets, which would be a bright, dim, and a self grounding socket where you need to ground the housing.



After you've done that, your rear sockets are done! You can move on. Most fuel senders are just one terminal, which would be the fuel sender wire. If you have a 2 terminal, most likely it's still the sender wire, and the other is a ground. Your fuel sender just sends a variable ground to make the gauge needle move. So your tank and sender need to be grounded.


So on a basic setup, the rear section is pretty much done. You can move on to something else. Front Section anyone? Since we've been talking about bulb wiring, let's just run the front lighting wires out and wire them. Our front turn signal bulbs are most likely the same as the rears, 1157 dual filaments. So you wire them the same way, Park or running lights to the dim filament, Turn Signal wires to the bright. Bench test your socket same way as before and label them if you need to. If you wire them that way, It will work itself out.


So what about the headlights? How do they wire up? Most headlight bulbs wire the same way. Like this: Ground on the left, Lowbeam on top, and Highbeam on the right


So your lights are done now as far as the front and rear. You could stay in the front and do the engine wiring, or go to the dash and wire some switches. Let's just stay in the front for now since our front wire bundle keeps getting smaller.

Coil wiring- How you wire your coil depends on the setup. Are you staying with points or going electronic? Is your coil an aftermarket 12v, or a stock coil (which could be on a 12v system, but have used a ballast resistor, or a resistor wire to bump it down to about 8-9v) You need to know this, because that will determine how you wire it. Here's an example of some coil wiring using a ballast resistor.

The coil wire comes in as a full 12v, and the coil is setup to run on about 8-9v. So the resistor takes care of that. On some solenoids, or ignition switches they will have a bypass terminal that sends out 12v only when cranking to help the ignition system and when you let off the starter it goes back to resisted voltage. Know your components! If you don't know, ask, that's what these forums are for! Not to brow beat each other for not knowing.

This diagram also gets into the starter wiring. Yours may differ, this is a common Ford setup. Ford, GM, Mopar, who cares? What your doing is engaging the starter to spin the engine over. Whether using a OFF-ON key and a push button, manual floor button, ground triggered solenoid, hot triggered solenoid, doesn't matter. You have to know what your setup takes in order to provide that. Then you can change it around how you want, within those guidelines. Most of them are going to use a solenoid, that takes a heavy battery cable, and then a smaller amount of power to engage it and make it spin. That's why you have the large battery cable and the smaller start wire to the S post in the picture.

So what if you want to use a neutral safety switch? or a push button start? That's fine, all you're doing is adding in a switch to control when you can send power, or how you can send it. Here's a diagram showing some neutral safety switches. They just help to control the flow of power.

So the key is sending the power to the safety switches (or push buttons) and then they will only send power through when you're in park or neutral (neutral safety) or when you push the button (push button start). Again, It always comes down to "what do I need here?" and "what do I have to work with?" Could you use a Ford ignition switch with a Mopar starter relay and a GM starter? Sure, why not? You just have to provide what they need to operate and keep it all straight. I don't recommend starting out like that if it's your first wiring job, but you can.

Ok, all this talk about starters and coils kinda leads me into the ignition switch wiring, A lot of our front is done at this point, except the charging system, which can be a long write up in itself, but we'll get there. The charging system to me is basically a stand alone system, but we'll do that later. Let's stay with the start and run part of it for now.

So you come back into the car and you've got all these bundles of wires. You'll notice that you've got one for the ignition switch, headlight switch, dimmer switch, turn signal switch, brake switch, gauges, and some miscellaneous power wires. Let's go to that ignition switch.

The ignition switch is what controls the "keyed" hot portion of the fuse panel, hence the term "keyed hots". You'll probably catch me saying "keyed and constant hots". "keyed" are powered up by the ignition switch, "constants" are constantly hot, from the battery. The ignition switch isn't a big mystery. It's just power in and out, depending on where the key is:

Dash switch, column switch, toggle switch, doesn't matter. Just power in and power out. So you have this bundle of wires: Ign Sw Pwr, Ign Sw Acc, Ign Sw Start, Ign Sw Ign, and Coil (most likely). The Ignition switch power is just that, constant power into the switch. Everything else is going to be power out. Ign Sw Ign-feeds a "keyed" row of fuses...Ign Sw Acc-feeds another row of "keyed" fuses, Ign Sw Start-sends power out to the starter solenoid, Coil-Sends power out to the coil. You just wire your switch by it's own operation, using the labeling on the wires.

Here's an example of a Ford switch wired up

An old DeSoto switch, notice it still has similar terminals to use AM in this case would be our battery terminal for the Ign Sw Pwr, main power in.

50's GM Ignition switch

See how all these different switches can be used with the same wiring kit? All of these ended up with a 9+3 wiring harness (just because of the amount of electrical needs). The wires don't know what switch you're using, and in most cases it doesn't matter. It just needs to provide the functions required to power the panel, start and run the car.

So what if you wanted to wire in a push button start? Well, you need to figure out if you've got a 2 wire button capable of sending a hot, or do you have a single wire, grounded push button, like on a Ford? The 2 wire button would go something like this:

The ignition switch powers one side of the button, and the button sends power on through, either to the starter, or maybe to a neutral safety switch before reaching the solenoid.

You might run into some switches that have an IGN 1 and IGN 2. IGN 1 was the normal run terminal, "hot in the on position". IGN 2 was used as a bypass terminal. Only hot in the START position, then went dead. This was like the setup on the solenoid, but did it at the switch instead. IGN 2 provided 12v to the coil when cranking, then went dead when in the "ON" position. If you get one that wants to fire up only when the key springs back to run, check that out. Look for IGN 2, you may need a jumper between IGN 1 and IGN 2, or run an extra wire to the coil, either way.

ADDED- 11/1/18... Alright guys, I'm going to try to get back into this today. Gotta get back into the groove I was in almost a month ago now, time flies.

So I think that mostly covers ignition switch wiring. Like I've said, It all just comes down to it's a switch that has constant power in (Red Ign Sw Pwr wire) and all the rest are power out (power to the fuse panel, coil, and solenoid).

Headlight Switch- Let's go into headlight switch wiring. I get asked a lot, "What headlight switch works best with Rebel harnesses?" I usually just reply something like, "use whatever looks right and covers the functions you want it to". I know that's a little vague, but It's what I would do if I were wiring something. If you want to run- headlights, tail lights, park lights, dash lights...just about any switch will work for that. If you want to run dome lights (which I'll go more into) then make sure your switch will do that. The harness really doesn't care what kind of switch is in there, but your switch needs to be able to do what you want. If I'm doing an older car, I like to use a switch that looks right, usually the original switch. I've had guys call and other wiring companies have told them they need to change out all the switches too. My response is usually, do the old switches still work? Your old 6v switches are built heavier than anything you're going to find now, and they usually have the same look as the rest of the car. But, let's just get into the wiring and not my opinion about switches.

So you're wiring your headlight switch. You'll have a bundle of wires for the headlight switch. You'll most likely have: headlight switch power, tail light, park light, dash light, dimmer power, and maybe a 2nd battery feed called "headlight switch tail light power". So you look at your switch and try to figure out where to connect those wires. Most headlight switches are stamped with letters, and the letters tell you what the function of that terminal is. Here's the most common stamping I've seen:
B-Battery (headlight switch power)
P-Park lights
R-Tail lights
H-Dimmer Power
I-Instrument or Dash lights

Here are some examples of older switches, showing what I'm talking about.

Reproduction of a 50's GM switch


I believe this is a later 40's Ford headlight switch.


A Shoebox Ford Headlight Switch. The letters are there. This switch actually has (2) B or Battery terminals, so it would just get the yellow headlight power wire to one, and a short jumper wire over to the other. Powering up both B, Battery terminals.


You'll run into that sometimes. A switch may have multiple B or Battery terminals, even B1, B2, maybe even B3 on some Mopars. You'll need to put constant power to all those Battery terminals. That's also where with our larger kits, that extra wire labeled "headlight switch tail light power" comes in. It's a 2nd battery feed to help power up that switch if you need it. A couple more examples:

Late 40's Early 50's Chevy Headlight Switch

You can see in this switch that there is a glove box light and a brake light terminal, basically bridged off of the battery terminal. That's exactly what they're doing, pulling constant power off of it, like a terminal block, and running power to the brake switch and a dome or glove box light switch.

Mid to late 50's Chevy switch. Still the same functions.


62 Cadillac headlight switch. This is actually the switch on Ryno's Golden Goddess Cadillac build. You can see it still has the same functions, just laid out differently.


55 Desoto Headlight switch, Still stamped with Similar letters and functions.


So as you can see, again we're just dealing with a power in, power out type situation. The heavy Headlight Power wire is your battery power in, and all the others are just power out. They come out of the switch and go looking for a ground, usually found out at your bulbs. As for your headlights themselves, power for them comes out of the headlight switch (H) terminal through the blue dimmer power wire and runs through a dimmer switch. The dimmer switch is yet another power in and power out setup. Power comes in after you pull the headlight switch all the way out and the dimmer switch just flips back and forth between it's high and low beam terminals.

53 Chevy COE dimmer switch wiring


Just about all Hi-Low dimmer switches are going to wire this way. Dimmer Power in, High and Low beams out. It just flows through the switch and out to the headlights, where the ground is. If you were to have an issue with your lights, you would just trace it out and test it. Do you have power on the Battery terminal? Do you have power coming out of the switch like it's supposed to? Is there power at the dimmer switch? Is the high or low beam wire hot? Do you have power at the bulb? You would trace it down like points on a map, from point to point. That's troubleshooting!

Dome Lights- I mentioned dome lights earlier. Dome and interior lights are the same as the rest of it. It takes power and ground to complete the circuit and turn on a bulb. What you have to figure out is what you have and what you need to make yours work. GM and Ford setups work differently. Most GM setups Have a constant hot at the light bulb, and the door jamb switches send a ground to turn them on. Most Ford setups have a grounded light bulb and send a hot signal to turn it on. Have you ever noticed that most GM's use single wire self grounding jamb switches, and Ford's use plastic 2 wire jamb switches? That's why. Still, it doesn't really matter. Let's say you had a Ford dome light, It's self grounded in the housing, and it only has 1 wire coming off of it. That light has decided what you have to work with (1 wire, and it needs to be a hot wire to turn it on). So that's what you need from your switch (jamb, dash switch, toggle, rocker switch, doesn't matter) that's what you have to provide to complete that circuit. You can get into relays to change that signal around, but it all comes back to what parts you have to work with and what they can do.

Here's some general GM and Ford dome light wiring diagrams

The main thing we're always dealing with is: What do I need to make my lights work, and can my switches supply that?

Alright guys, I've got to get back to work. Got some wiring kits to build. I'll add more later. If anyone has any questions, feel free to call or email us. 423-263-5399 or rebel43jb@comcast.net Thanks

 

Great thread!! I have a few questions as I'd like to redo/update my fuse panel and harness setup I made 20+ years ago: There were a couple of pictures posted of a fuse panel using the phenolic board along with a bakelite(?) fuse panel. Is this recommended as opposed to other materials when making ones own fuse panel? Anyone have experience with the ATO fuse blocks with LED's to show which fuses have blown? My truck's original location was up on the firewall up underneath the dash but I am looking for better spots so I don't have to be a contortionist. I am keeping the in-cab gas tank so putting it underneath the seat is questionable. Anyone have any suggestions/ideas?

 

>> "Anyone have experience with the ATO fuse blocks with LED's to show which fuses have blown? "
I have used these in a couple of old, but OT, Cornbinders (International Harvester trucks) and Volvos.

My "OVERSPRAY SPECIAL" came to me with the small fuse block in the upper-right of this picture. It has 4 each, European cartridge fuses, with a couple of positions damaged. For the purists, this IS a 1957 model design and I am posting in HAMB....

Back to the question - These LED fuse blocks take much of the load off of the original 51 year old wiring, and also replace a couple of damaged fuse positions in the original fuse block.

The upper LED fuse block has 12 Volts directly connected to the battery. It provides power to the Brake lights and the horn.

The lower LED fuse block (cover is off at the moment) provides switched power (ignition key "ON" or "ACCESSORY") to aftermarket trio gauge panel, tach, dash lights (the original Volvo light switch appears to be inobtanium and my usual GM light switch fix is too big to fit), electric fan (it came to me this way). "PATCH" is a jumper to a bad position in the original fuse box .

The relay on the left side of the picture, labeled "ACC", is triggered by accessory power wire from the ignition switch and proves 12 Volts from the battery (this taking the load off of the aftermarket ignition switch.

p.s. #1 Remember to label each position, 2 years from now, you will not remember which wire goes where...

p.s. #2 This 1967 Volvo 122 station wagon is about to go away... I bought it "cheap" and expect to sell it much "cheaper".

Russ

 

I think it all comes down to how you want it to look and availability of parts. As long as the materials are good quality, In my opinion a fuse is a fuse. You just want the right amp rating. The LED fuses are nice for when you blow one especially in a dark spot, but honestly, you shouldn't be blowing fuses. I can't tell you the last time I replaced a fuse once all the wiring was done.

 

If you removed the fuses from the three box like gizmos what is inside them, and what do they do? Bob

 

I have a 9+3 going in my 56 Ford.ILL CALL YA IF I GET HUNG UP!

 

Got it all wired up and it runs well. Only problem is that my Bosch FST8000 tach isn't working. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the Pertronix distributor.

I have the Pertronix distributor red wire to coil +, black wire to coil - and the tach signal wire to coil -. I have confirmed 12V power to the tach power terminal and continuity at ends of purple tach signal wire.

Any tips?

 

I agree with you if each circuit is done with electrical load/amperage, wire gage and fuse size are all done correctly a blown fuse should be a rarity. I learned that the hard way. My connections need to be better too as I just used crimped ones and electrical tape. Tape came loose and I now have corrosion inside some of the wires. Next time they will have sealed shrink tubing on all of them. Thanks for the feedback!


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

So I have decided to just redo my fleetline after 67 years the original is pretty jacked up. Is the website the best place to order the 9+3


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Inside it's basically just terminals so the fuses have something to plug in to, connected to lengths of wire. One side of the fuse would be power in (either from the battery or the ignition switch) and the other side of the fuse would just be power out (to the headlight switch, gauges, radio, etc).

 

Does the tach have a separate ground also? Sounds like everything else is wired right, might check that out. It should at least move, even if it had a switch to change from 4cyl, 6cly, 8cyl somewhere. I put a pertronix kit in my Galaxie with an old tach and it worked fine

 

Either the website, or give us a call 423-263-5399. Just let us know when you get ready

 

Yes, tach has a separate ground and I have continuity between connections. Switch is set on 8. Maybe it's faulty. I'll pick up a cheap parts store tach for testing.

 

Brass terminals like these snap into the plastic housings. Can be set up with a buss bar on one side or individual terminals on both sides, depending on the circuitry. The wires are crimped in place before they are locked into the housing.

 

Thank you for taking the time @REBEL43 this is an incredibly useful and informative thread.

 

Bought this crimping tool to use on the connecters that came with my wiring harness.


The nose of the tool has letters by the different sizes of crimps


How do you know which connecter fits which crimp?
I know that this tools will not crimp the two large connecters in the photo that are for the 50 amp fuse. I plan on using more of these connecters than came with the harness kit. Is there a chart on line for this info?
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

I just laid out my 9+3 kit on the work bench.
Then I read the instructions, next I read your post on getting started by mounting the fuse panel.

Then I see all the tie wrapped bundles of wire and I’m still lost.

Good grief Charlie Brown
I’m sure I’ll figure it out eventually

 

@Blue One I felt the same way, my first time looking at a full harness. You just gotta get started. You know what to do, just take your time.


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Blue One,
See post #303 in this thread. Read and install one sentence at a time. Hope this helps you get started.


Phil

 

Blue One I have the same 9 + 3 kit and don't do wiring but got my A roadster wired with the help of my brother. If you have all components installed where they belong its easy enough to spread out the harness routing each section to the area that it feeds. Locate your fuse box first. Then there is a bundle that goes to the rear of the car for tail lights, brake lights, gas sender, and plate light. A bundle for the dash/ignition/gauges/switches. A bundle for the front of the car for temp sender,/oil press sender/starter, and coil. Just run the bundles to their areas and get the harness so it lies flat, doesn't crimp or rub on any sharp raw edges in the car. Then take 1 circuit at a time using the instructions and follow the wire/color for the circuit you are wiring. It can look overwhelming at first but if you got the car to this point in the build I am sure you can handle it. Plus the guys at Rebel are great on the phone. They will talk with you and walk through what your working on if you need them too and that kind of help is worth a lot.

 

Most of those terminals in the picture are going to be 14-16ga. With that crimper you'll have to crimp once around the copper and once around the insulation. Unless the crimpers came with some paperwork showing letters to wire size it will probably take some trial and error. The die for the insulation side will probably be a little larger than the die for the copper wire. You may just have to feel it out and see which die fits better, and you might have to get them started by closing up the terminal a little before crimping it

 

Everyone is giving great advice on this. The hardest part is getting started. Get the fuse panel mounted in the car and start pulling wires in the general direction they go. Then just pick a place and start wiring one thing at a time (try not to bounce around, it can be confusing). I'd probably do the front or rear (rear is less wires) to get the ball rolling. It's a good confidence builder to say part of it is done. If you get stuck just let us know. Everyone has been there and you've got a lot of experience to draw from

 

This is my fuse panel mount for my 1959 Ford, which never has one from the factory. It enabled me to get the panel off the floor so the main bundle wasn't trapped to the floor. This is how I broke the harness out. I made a plywood harness board for it, used the steering column as a reference point, broke out the bundles left and right.

 

Thanks for responding to my questions. With some more research I believe the "B" is for 16-14g, the "A" 18g, "C" 20g, "D" 22g and "E" 24g. I know I will have to use one crimp size for the insulation and another for the wire, but I believe I am in the ballpark now.
Great thread, thanks for starting it. It has cleared up some electrical mysteries for me.
Thanks again

 

No problem, I'm meaning to come back and add more, just been building kits and doing tech for a while. Maybe I'll get to add some more later today though.

 

Rebel43, found this thread and read it all tonite...whewww, a lot of reading. Good thread!
When I wired from scratch, I started with a row of circuit breakers , mounted to a backing and had two banks, one switched, one hot and connected the banks separately with a copper bar. Then all my terminals were the small, uninsulated eye terminals. Worked real good for me. My question is why don’t you use circuit breakers?
In modern fire trucks you almost never see fuses anymore.
When I say modern, I meant the ones in this century, I know multi-plexing is taking over now. Glad I got out just as that was coming in.


Bones

 

We use circuit breakers in our relay kits. I've thought about using them on a smaller harness, something really simple with 4 circuits or so. It really comes down to material cost + time to build and what someone is going to pay for it. We come up with a lot of ideas on products, but after a quick search to see where you need to be price wise, most of the time there is a similar product from China cheaper than you can buy the materials, with free shipping! I feel like something needs to look like a $300 product just to be able to sell it for $200, because we all want a good deal, myself included. It's always a thin line of what can we build vs. what we can sell and make a small profit.

We were looking at add-on turn signal switches the other day on Ebay and saw some as low as 12.00 with free shipping from CA! What did they pay for it, .50? Well there's my rant for this morning A lot of ideas get scrapped due to no market or not being able to produce it for a marketable price. We also shoot ourselves in the foot a lot because we're working on someone's harness going (you think he needs a longer brake wire for that? would a 3 pin flasher be easier to use this time? his dash is different, let's take out those indicator wires Next thing you know you took all day to build a harness and might have added 10.00 to the cost, But we enjoy it doing it, so it's all worth it,

 

Rebel43 I was busy in the shop this afternoon and tried your suggestion on my flashers to put a small twist in the prongs to make them sit tighter in the fuse panel and it worked nicely. Thanks!