Technical Heat shrink and solder wire connectors

I guess I am and old dog and not wanting to learn a new trick. I rather hand solder and then use heat shrink. Physically and eyeing my work before sliding heat shrink over connection gives me peace of mind.

 

That must have been a weak dash and some good wires!

 

I am old school when it comes to soldering wires if I cannot do a single run. I do a modified western union wiring joint, use good old NAPA 60/40 lead electrical solder. Heat the wire with my old Wen solder gun and just a couple taps with solder until it wicks in and just nicely fills the joint without burning the insulation. I like the all weather shrink tube that oozes a glue type sealer out the ends. The process is reasonably quick and I know that I will never have to look at it again. I have no patience for the lead free electrical solder as it does not melt and wick in as nice as the lead. I picked up 3 rolls at NAPA to build some inventory for the day its not available.

The Western Union joint is one of the strongest of electrical joints and it will never come apart once the solder hits it. I twist both ends to make the twisted strands tight before I cross the wires and wrap the ends around each wire.

 

The more I read about electrical stuff the less likely I am to ever try any of it. I know if I went to NAPA and picked up a roll of wire someone would say I used the wrong hand. Bob

 

Thanks , Patter, I did not know that style of splicing wires had a name. My father taught me how to do that on barbed wire , on the ranch, back in the fifties.He insisted in tight straight fences.

Later that’s the splice that I used to join two wires before soldering them and covering them with heat shrink or quailty tape. Like I stated before, never had a failed joint with this procedure , in forty years of using it.


Bones

 

I wonder if some of the problems with conventional soldering of wires is due to the use of acid flux?
So far as I know only resin flux should be used on electrical connections, but I have seen electricians use the acid flux.

 

I know that I'll probably never convince any of you guys that like solder to give it up...

I'm not saying that solder is unreliable, but it is less reliable compared to a properly-done crimp. I used to solder too, but I had enough joint failures over the years that I quit doing it. Not a lot, but enough. Once I figured out how to do a proper crimp, I haven't had even one connection failure since. Faster, easier, better, why use solder?

As to the NEC exception, note what it says: 'splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder'. So basically you're adding suspenders to your belt... I was told this is still in the code only to allow alterations to existing knob-and-tube wiring. Note that you also can't get it 'secure' if you're using stranded wire; solid wire sure, stranded, no...

Solder has two main issues. One, the heat generally used to get a good solder joint destroys the 'malleability' of the copper, making it brittle. Nearly all solder joint failures I've had have been from the wire breaking right at the transition between the soldered part of the wire and the unsoldered. Nearly all soldering guns have a tip temperature of between 600 and 700 degrees, which is more than enough the destroy the malleability. Solder melts at only 370 degrees, but the higher temp is needed to bring the wire up to temp quickly enough so you don't burn too much insulation and to prevent a 'cold' joint. You can mitigate this with very careful strain relief, by basically eliminating any possibility of flex or vibration within about 3-4" of the joint. Does that mean if you fail to do this every joint will fail? No, of course not.

The other issue is the low melting point of solder. At only 370 degrees, a problem in the circuit can produce that amount of heat under the right conditions easier than you think, causing the joint to 'unsolder' itself. While if you're seeing those temps you definitely have a major problem, having a wire come loose and possibly get across another circuit can multiply your problems. This is why the NEC requires a 'secure' connection. I've seen wire burned off where it goes into the crimp from extreme heat, but the crimp connection itself did not fail.

Open up any OEM harness from the '50s up, and you'll find almost zero soldered connections. You may find a few, but without fail they'll be where they're joining 3 or more wires together. Everything else will be crimped...

 

Steve, I don't know about copper wires but copper head gaskets I've often softened by heating cherry red. Why does heating wires destroy the malleability? Second question: Does the solder in these shrink wrap connectors also melt at 370 degrees?

 

Like many things, soldering is a skill. The wire shouldn't be heated hundreds of degrees over the melting point of the solder.
It's a tough one to measure, but I'd venture that when properly making a joint it won't get more than fifty or a hundred, at most, degrees over the melting point of the solder. The resin will be smoking like crazy at higher temperatures.

Perfect crimps can be made repeatedly by semiskilled workers if the correct tools and parts are used, which is obviously an advantage.

 

I agree with Beanscoot with soldering being a skill. Trick is to use a good solder gun so it heats the wire where it touches quickly so a couple taps with the solder and its done without affecting the plastic wire insulation. I put the all weather or double wall shrink tubing on so it extends past the joint on both sides so there is resistance to bending at the solder. The resin core lead electrical solder is absorbed quickly by the wire. I have no patience for the lead free as it seems to seems to need to much heat & does not wick into the wire like lead.
Crimps have their place as well and I am not arguing against them. The fewer joints in wiring makes for better reliability.

 

These work well. 3 sizes pink green and yellow. Crimp solder shrink. Average about a buck each. These came from Fastenal




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I bought a kit from Napa to use in our shop before I retired, came with a high powered heat gun. My problem was this kit used a liquid flux never saw a problem in the joints but that stuff corroded a hole in the case it came in. Always wondered what it would do to wiring in the long term.

 

Steve, first, let me say that I,and I think most folks here, value your opinions. I think they reach the “ expert “ level. Your opinion that your not going to change some of us old solderers rings true with me. Lol... But I don’t do much wiring anymore, too late for me, but don’t give up on the younger guys!
Like mentioned here on a previous post, soldering is an art. I have mastered it and it works for me. I chose to use solder, close to forty years ago, when the information highway as we know of today, did not exist. Not that the info was not available, but most opinions were based mostly on your and your circle of co-workers knowledge and experiences.
I worked on fire trucks, and one fire truck has about the same amount of wiring as 10 hot rods and have Diesel engines that vibrate horribly at an idle. They also exist in a very wet environment. For me soldering was a 33 year success. I always made a mechanical connection, either by twisting the wire or crimping the terminal with my high quality crimper. Then a quick solder, a quality thick heat shrink, usually 1/2 to 1 inch past the joint. Then the wire was supported closely in a variety of ways.

I did the best that I could with the knowledge available to me. Early in my career I became a member of the California Emergency Association, but only commicated by mail. About half way through my career, I became a Charter member of the Oklahoma Emergency Vehile Association. We then helped Texas, Arkansas, New Mexico and Kansas form their associations and developed the SouthWest Conference. That along with the internet help people share their knowledge.
That’s when things began to change and sometimes we found out we had been doing things wrong.... and sometimes right.


Bones

 

I'm not a metallurgist, so I can't explain why soldering weakens copper wire. But I have performed 'at home' tests and know what I see. Take two lengths of #14 wire, install a crimp on one and solder a crimp on the other. Clamp the terminated ends in a vice and then start bending them back and forth. The solder connection will break quickly.

And keep in mind that in applying heat to metals (think heat treating), how hot, how long, rate of temp rise, rate of cooling, quenched or not, by varying these factors you can get very different results from the same piece of metal. Plus the added variable of the chemical reaction from the flux, which etches the wire.

What temp those splice sleeves melt at is unknown. The 370 degree figure is a 'typical' melting point, some solders melt at a lower temp. I suspect those do have a lower temp, given it's done with a heat gun. Which if you stop and think about it, isn't a good thing. The enemy of all electrical systems is heat, the more heat they can withstand, the more reliable they are.

Bones, I appreciate the vote. I've been doing my own vehicle wiring since my first car in high school and like many, learned some of these lessons the hard way. Add in 35+ years in the electrical trade (and I've done most of it, from troubleshooting knob-and-tube in old houses to nuke plants), and I've seen every kind of termination failure you can imagine. And experience has taught me that solder connections are the least reliable of the choices available. Note I didn't say unreliable, just not as reliable as other methods.

Crimps got a bad reputation in the car hobby when they started selling the typical insulated barrel style crimps in auto parts stores. Good product when used right, but misapplied in this case. Inability to get a 100% crimp with the plastic insulating sleeve in place and a lack of strain relief are their major faults. On a terminal strip inside a cabinet they'll last forever, on a car with vibration and exposure to the elements, not so much.

Then they started selling those 'inline' splices that you squeeze with pliers, no stripping required. These are a PITA to use even when used in a 'approved' application; a 5 to 10% failure rate on initial install is common. A disaster in an automotive application.

The OEM automotive style crimps are a step up as they offer strain relief, but their 'open' design makes crimping them difficult, what with the four 'tabs' that have to be folded over. Most of the affordable crimp tools I've seen for these are finicky to use, the really good ones are seriously expensive. I'll use these if I have to, but generally avoid them.

The best crimps are uninsulated barrels. Hard to find, I'll usually just buy the insulated ones and cut the plastic sleeve off. With the right crimp tool to get a 100% crimp and sized for the wire, these are idiot-proof. Add some shrink tube for strain relief, and it doesn't get any better that these. I have never seen one that was properly crimped fail....

 

I have used these in the past when I worked for Watkins Motor Lines. Quick and fast for repairs on truck trailer and dolly lighting, I liked them and they worked well with one of those fancy butane torch deals.

The cost is the reason I stick to the old school way, and i like it, of solder and shrink tube. I think a roll of solder and a huge collection of shrink warp, 10 1' long pieces of 4 different sizes costed me $10.00 at the swap meet this weekend and i use my 40 year old soldering iron on everything except battery cables.

Cliff Ramsdell

 

I have hated the standard crimp style terminals for decades since I drove and maintained my own semi several decades ago. Many times they jiggle loose from vibration. We have all had these problems. So I went with the soldered connections as stated above.
Now, I'm not saying Steve is crazy, (he says that himself), and I trust he knows what he is doing with his level of experience. It has been said that, "a properly crimped terminal" will stand the test of time. I have about half a dozen pliers in my tool box, after searching for the proper crimp tool without any luck. Every one of them I have used has come apart. I'm not a cheapskate when it comes to tools. I would buy the good pliers if I knew what to buy.

What I would like to see, is what pliers to use to crimp these properly, and a little tutorial on how to do it properly. I absolutely hate the terminals with the hard plastic sleeve. When crimped hard, they distort, break, and look like shit, so I have pulled them off, crimped, then soldered the connection, and slid a piece of shrink tube over the end. Looks way better, makes me feel much better.

So, how do we do it properly? Thanks.

 

Same here but I'd like to try the new self-contained-solder style shown. Maybe when I wire up an electric fuel pump [with relay] I'll give them a shot. Thanks for the hint.

 

JVO, check out Klein tools, they make a good crimping tool, part number 1006 I think, but even using it on insulted terminols, will produce a ugly , but effective crimp. Not a “ factory “ crimp, but a good field crimp. If you go to crimping get this orange and black handled tool.
As for me... I’m staying with the crimp or twist, solder, heat shrink method, has worked for me. And now I see that I’m not alone on this method, it has quite the following with other people defending it. It’s good to have company.


Bones

 

Crimp only for me, but I pull the plastic barrel off the wiring end and just crimp the metal joint, cover that with shrink wrap, much better looking repair too. The biggest thing to wiring is using the right tools, a wire crimper isn't cheap, but it's my best friend, also learning how to crimp makes a difference as well.

 

I've been looking at these crimping pliers with interchangeable jaws. They can be set up so that you can't overcrimp, and having several different jaw sets means you can crimp most any automotive type terminal. Not cheap, but good tools never are!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045CUML...&pd_rd_r=6a4af146-d7a2-11e8-ab2d-810914121f6a

 

Alright, I guess I need to do a tutorial. The proper hand tools exist, but you won't find them at an automotive vendor, you'll have to get them from a industrial electrical supplier. There's also some very inexpensive hydraulic crimpers now available, which while they can be clumsy for use on smaller wire, are a must-have if you're crimping any wire larger than #10. I'll take me a little while to work up one that demonstrates the differences...

 

I use both but mainly crimp connectors. Never the auto store plastic covered ones unless that is all I have then strip off the plastic. The proper crimper is essential-most are of poor quality. Mine is an old Thomas and Betts that I carried for years in my tool bag as a lineman to crimp connectors in control panels. Crimp works well if done properly. 45 years in the trade and most all connections are crimped or pressed. In the old days there was a tool to wrap large conductors together for line splices on overhead lines then soldered in the air-they held line tension well-took down many that were 30-40 yrs old-still solid. For battery ends I use an old overhead line press-solid connection-never had one fail. These are for overhead lines splices that must be full tension and 100% conductive-I'm sure Crazy Steve has used these in the past. There are some hydraulic ones now that work well but these work very well-they were used for years in the line trade. I don't care for the indent type battery lug tool-seen those connections fail quite a few times. Just did some cables yesterday on a drag car-they had failed with indent connections-1200HP car that shakes and vibrates a lot..

 

I've used this type and I'm not a fan of these crimpers. These generally don't deliver a 100% crimp (which I'll explain in the tutorial) and for most of the 'open' types of crimps they supposedly do require multiple operations to get a full, proper crimp. A 'open' crimp (when done right) also gives built-in strain relief (no shrink tube required), but requires separate crimping for the wire then the strain relief with two different sized dies when using this type crimper. These are very finicky to use, expect some failed crimps. The OEMs that use these crimps have a specialty crimper that does both crimps in one operation, but these crimpers aren't cheap; $300 and up are typical prices and they usually only do a few sizes, so you need more than one if you're dealing with a range of sizes.

 

That is exactly what I do! Just could never master the soldering thing. I slice the plastic barrel off the terminal with a razor knife, strip the wire, do a proper crimp with the right tool, wrap with Scotch 88 and cover with polyolefin heat shrink. Been doing it for years and never had an issue. I guess I'm doing it right. Nice to get a validation from a retired electrician!

 

Yep, AKA 'Burndy' crimpers (at least around here). Being a inside wireman, I didn't use those that often. The last shop I worked for had two Anderson 4-point hydraulic crimpers, a smaller one and a larger one. The larger one would do up to 750MCM wire. Both would be serious overkill for automotive use, besides costing north of $1K each...

The thing about specialty crimps is most manufacturers would guarantee crimp quality, but ONLY if you used their (expensive) proprietary crimper. Use another brand crimper, and no guarantee. Using the wrong crimper could also void the UL listing on some of them.

 

I used Burndy hydraulic12A presses on larger wire sizes but these are plenty good for battery cables. Have pressed wire up to 2.2mil MCM on 500KV with large hydraulic presses as well.

 

You need different crimpers for Non and insulated connectors.

A pair of T&B pliers for non insulated. Look for used.
https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Betts-WT111M-Insulated-Terminals/dp/B0018LD2PU

And a pair of replaceable die Crimpers for insulated. Paladin was bought by Greenlee and the price doubled. You could get handles and 1 set of dies for less than $50. Look at pawn shops for handles cheep. I have 10+ I picked up along the way. Ideal, Xcelite, Amphenol and others make them but dies are expensive.
https://imgur.com/ZOiq7qr

T&B 14
https://imgur.com/b7lg4ej
https://imgur.com/Fd65yf5

 

I never use the bolt/clamp battery terminal, usually replace the cable with a new one.
I tried the crimp on terminals, went to the truck store that had the “ high dollar” crimper with various size dies. After following instructions to the tee, I pulled on the terminal and it came off in my hand. I could see it wasn’t crimped good enough, but the guy would do anything different.
Went back to my shop, got my copper lugs, grabbed my old punch type crimper, did “ my “ crimp. Then got out the propane torch and and let the solder wick into the joint, wrapped it with 33 tape, covered it with a heavy heat shrink and have never had any failures with this process.

I know I’m old school and set in my ways, but it’s hard for me to change something that has worked for 33 years without a failure.
I have had many crimps , both factory and field, fail. Had a lot of small factory terminals break right at the end of the terminal before the insulation starts. GM coil wire comes to mind.

I just can’t trust crimps alone, to me they need a little help

Just remember I have no sheepskin in this stuff, just trench learnin......



Bones

 

I've been doing guitar amplifier servicing and repairs for a couple of decades. Guitar amps undergo a pretty tough life on the road with a touring musician, and it really sucks when they break while you're on the road, reliability is of utmost importance. Best practice in the industry when joining 2 (or more) wires together is to always make a solid "mechanical" connection first, then solder it, then cover with heat shrink tubing. You never rely on the solder alone to make the connection. The connection should hold on it's own without the use of solder; solder then is a secondary, not primary, holding force. That's the problem I see with the connectors mentioned in the OP, the "solder" is the only holding force. To add to that is the low temp "solder" used. What exactly is it? I know what real solder is, it's an alloy of lead and tin. (screw the non-lead solder, that shit sucks!) The melting point is far higher that whatever the stuff in these connectors is. What is the long term success of these connections? Seems like you're setting yourself up for massive reliability problems if you wire your car up with these. I wouldn't do it.

 

Hmm, if these can be considered "not cheap", I wonder how any good/quality tools would be perceived here ?