Technical Heat shrink and solder wire connectors

I know it’s been stated several times here that the “ western union “ splice doesn’t work on stranded wire. I do use that splice, or something close to it, on stranded wire and then solder and cover it with heat shrink or good tape. Makes a very solid joint that cannot be pulled apart in most situations. I have never tested the joint to failure, never had the need. If you have that much tension on your wires, in an automotive electrical system,you have other bigger problems.
A company I used to be a dealer for, would skive back wires about an inch and a half and put them side by side pointing the same direction and twist the wires together tightly. Then they would pull the wires in different directions and lay the bare twisted wire along side one wire and tape it. Never had any trouble with that splice. It’s kinda like the modified western union.
I guess what’s most important is if it works and what a person prefers.


Bones

 

One thing to remember, they use stranded wire to have flexibility and once you splice it, it is no longer flexible in the area of the splice!

 

Hi all,
I will have to respecfully disagree with stated reasons for using crimps. I design microprocessors and the machines that build them for a living...my education is in electrical and computer science. So I have experience in this area.

The reason crimps were created in the first place was to save time. Thats it. Its also the reason the codes for thier use is specific and long... Pages and pages... If you lookup the specifications for a wire crimp there are listing of crimper type along with inch pounds of force, the shape and type of crimp along with wire types and sizes. Its like this because wire crimps fail and can fail all the time... Not to mention the fact of oxidation that can create an open circuit.

Any electronic/electrical component that is of extreme use, sensitivity, extreme critical machinery or equipment you will never find ANY crimps of any kind... Or you would find a Soldered Crimp. Basically a shoe box size machine that crimps the connector on the wire and also uses current to (weld/solder) the wire to the crimp...(wire is pre-tinted with silver solder).

I spend hours under an electron microscope viewing soldered connections. Soldering is always the best way. Always.

Its easier to teach someone to solder correctly than it is to teach someone to properly crimp and inspect a crimp. So many things go wrong with crimps... Tool wears out, laziness, not paying attention to quality... And lastly all the overseas garbage wire connectors that dont meet any spec of any kind. Thats why the code books are so long and descriptive.

Crimps came about to speed up a process of building wiring harnesses and to increase complacency and lower quality... Just research Lucas Wiring... If all wiring harnesses were of a crimp and soldered connection the amount of electrical gremlins would drop a hundred fold.

Every new truck i have ever owned has had wiring issues due to the CONNECTORS and the crimps... Being exposed to weather and or salt environments take their toll... Its not a matter of if.. Its when. What the OEMS fail to realize there solutions increase cost... Such as shoving electrical grease and or weatherproof dialectrics, redesiging connectors with waterproof rubber sleeves amongst other intricate engineering connector feats. All to deak with the fact crimps basically suck.

All this extra work, time and expense for these special connectors, crimps, tooling, chemical additives all so they can continue to use a crimp process.... TO SAVE TIME??? like buying the most expensive cellphone because "Its the thinnest in the world" Then next day you "Have to protect your investment" buying a glass screen protector, hardened moulded case, another case for that case so you can clip it on your belt... Now its not so thin and light IS IT?

I have a 34 ford truck that was my dad and my grandfather rewired 50 plus years ago... All solder connections and still no issues.

 

Hear hear. Soldering isn't all that hard or time consuming, IMHO. But what can you do with weather packs and all the fancy pins and pukas associated with computers? Gary

 

Birthday:
Jan 1, 1900 (Age: 118)

Glad to see you're still gainfully employed at a spry 118 years old!

 

Thank you Ratfink. I soldered every connection I ever made on my Firetrucks, with no failure in 33 years of wiring. Many times I would fine an open connection in crimped connections made by the manufacturer of the Engine. Never had one of my crimped, soldered and heat shrinked connections fail. Worked for me!
I had one roll around box just for my electrical wiring. It had 4/5 different soldering guns. They are like wrenchs one size doesn’t fit everything. My Weller 200 watt electrical gun was the most used, but had one that was as small as a ice pick. Had one huge and at times used a torch. The roll around also had several crimpers,wire, terminals, meters, etc.
Wiring and Firetrucks were not always compatible, due to their wet environment. Was the most problematic thing with most Firetrucks. They have come a long way though in the forty years I have dealt with them.





Bones

 

Hmmmm… Make sure you let the NFPA know that their banning of all soldered field connections in the NEC for the last 70 years is wrong... Don't forget to notify the FAA and Coast Guard while you're at it.

 

Connections and crimped/soldered joints are different things.
Connectors are a necessary evil in wiring, imagine if a whole car were wired with none!

 

Have fun:
https://standards.nasa.gov/standard/nasa/nasa-std-87394
https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/frameset.html

 

I guess Ratfink will have to tell NASA they're wrong too....

 

I guess that I will have to tell the higher ups at the home office that we are doing it all wrong, and that we have been, for about 100-years.

 

I am sure that he will love those as much as when I post the NASA report about how split lock washers are worse than no washer, at-all.

 

And to think of the lives I put in Danger with 35 years in Airline Mtc..

 

I’m from the Government and I’m here to help you! He he



Bones

 

I suspect that Ratfink was either trolling or is monumentally uninformed. Yes, if you're dealing with microprocessors/computers, the connection is king. Dealing with inputs/outputs in the milli or micro range, particularly at ultra-high frequencies, even a slightly flawed connection can introduce excessive 'noise'. But this is usually limited to integrated circuit boards; field wiring is rarely if ever that sensitive. Certainly not in an automotive environment.

Now, I had to laugh when he held up Lucas as an example of 'poor crimping'. Actually, their crimping is quite good. Where they go wrong is in other areas; things like hiding fuses under glued-in carpet, using only 10 wire colors for the whole damn car (a car that has EFI, 'climate control' HVAC, cruise control, and power everything; troubleshooting can be a real exercise in patience! It also doesn't help that the bits are scattered all over the car due to space issues), excessively complicated circuits, and marginal components. But probably their worst failing is using parts with inadequate corrosion resistance; I wish I had a dollar for every switch I had to either disassemble to clean or replace because of corroded or totally failed contacts. They were also the only cars I've seen with warning lights to inform you of other warning lights (although I'll grant that they told you if it was a 'major' or 'minor' warning... LOL).

My 'favorite' Jag 'feature', that would make you go WTF?! The brake warning light....
When the feds required a brake system warning light, pretty much everyone installed a pressure-differential switch that would indicate low or no pressure on one side or the other of the split system. Some included a 'delay valve' to apply the rear brakes first. This wouldn't work on the Jag system; they introduced the delay in the master cylinder with a two-piece piston, so with a conventional valve the light would blink every time you applied the brakes. Jaguar's solution was a 'low fluid' light (how they got that past the feds is still a mystery) with a float switch in the brake fluid reservoir. A bit sketchy, but ok... Did they use a plastic or metal float? Oh no, Jag/Lucas used a CORK float (looked just like a wine cork) that would soak up the fluid and sink to the bottom within a few years... They never fixed this, it finally disappeared when they went to ABS brakes in 1990.

 

Actually, he missed on that count, too. I put all of that equipment in automobiles that drive themselves. I do this 5-7 days-a-week, 8-14 hours-a-day. These cars are operating 24/7/365, on the streets of a major city, even in driving rain. They are only idle long enough to have their batteries charged (as they are electric).

Every single connection is crimped. Only board sockets are soldered. All all standard automotive-grade connectors, both inside, and outside the car. The recorded number of failures, over a few million chassis dynomometer test-miles is almost zero. The recorded number of failures, throughout thousands of hours of forced harsh weather testing, is exactly zero. The number of failures over all real-world test miles is exactly zero. The number of failures on dedicated wiring test equipment is statistically insignificant.

We roll enough wire to fill >12 conventional automobiles, and pack in enough computer equipment to build a data center for a small corporation, per car (makes a fire truck look like a doorbell).

By his expertise, we should have never made it out of the garage.

Every single applicable Federal, State, and local governing body, regulatory agency, and law enforcement agency has full-access to our records, and the right to examine them (and they do it). If we were concealing any errors, you would have already read about in the press.

He'd probably will lose his mind when he finds out that ever single major electronic component is closed-loop water-cooled (and hand crimped).

Maybe he works on superconducting supercolliders, who knows. I am sure is expertise is relevant, somewhere.

It was an curious first-post, in-lieu of an introduction. I wonder if we will ever hear from him again.

 

Waiting


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

Come on Gimpy “ makes a fire truck look like a door bell”.... at least give me the porch light too!
Guys when I took over the maintenance of the Fire engines in my town 40 years ago,bad connections by the previous mechanic were rampant! He used the little blue 3m thingies that caused me a lot of grief!
Now I was an untrained boy off the farm that was good with trucks and engines. Back then that was the only credentials a Fire mechanic needed. Scary huh!
After dealing with bad connections for a short time I decided on a policy of “ make a mechanical connection( crimping/ twisting) solder, and heat shrink every connection”.It served me well over 33 years. I did what worked for me and what I thought best.
There was no internet back then, if you wanted information you had to really hunt it. I tried to attend every school on anything that pertained to Firetrucks and mechanics in general.
When the internet came around it early on was refered to as the information highway, an excellent name and mechanics lives were changed forever.
I was also a Charter member of Oklahoma Emergency Vehicle Tech Association. We helped other states form their Associations and developed the South West Conference. Now including Kansas, Texas, New Mexico, Arkansas. We helped promote standards and education of mechanics that work on emergency equipment.
Luckily I retired just as multi-plexing was coming to the fire industry.
I’m not trying to promote my way, I have already conceded to Crazy Steve that according to many sanctioning bodies soldering is out! But.... be sure you crimp right! I see ALOT of bad crimps that DO cause problems...... but they are BAD crimps.



Bones

 

Okay, front and back porch lights.

The inventor of the 3M Scotch Tap should be in prison, along with every person who ever used one.

 

Ok, that’s better!
I agree and they are still using and selling that crap! I see it on trailers all the time.


Bones

 

I regularly use crimp style wire connectors, with shrink tube & di-electric grease inside for a piece of mind. Never had any issues. Also performed 100’s of wiring repairs with solder & shrink tube with absolutely no issues resulting from repairing.
I definitely feel solder & shrink tube is a cleaner more permanent repair. Also keeps multiple repairs in one harness smaller in overall OD which I feel is cleaner looking.


Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.

 

They have a legitimate use; when you're wiring a long continuous string of stem-hung store lights, it's much easier/faster to pull the wire full length, then just 'tap' the individual ballasts in, even including the inevitable taps you'll have to go back and troubleshoot. But that's the only place where they're worth a damn....

 

Its interesting to see the different perspectives and many have merit. From my viewpoint as a marine electrician who works on those navy ships that are supposed to sink and resurface I can tell you that this shrink splice, properly used, is superior than anything else in terms of moisture intrusion. The best way to melt the solder correctly is by using a heat gun with variable heat settings and a nozzle attachment that is about 3/8" diameter. You can heat and melt the solder without damaging the insulation if done correctly.
As for the Western Union splice, it works especially well with stranded wire as long as the wire is heated enough by the soldering iron to allow thorough solder penetration, just don't forget to put your shrink sleeves on the wires first or you may find yourselves saying words that might not be acceptable to your grandma.

 

I thought this site was supposed to be old school.

 

Arguing about the "right" way to do something IS old school.