hey guys, So after searching on and off for probably close to a year casually I decided to just make a post. I’ve seen reference to different model A’s having a different number of leaves in the pack, both front and back. For big trucks or other passenger models. But what I can’t seem to really nail down is if there are different main leafs. The perch centers on the axles are all the same a to aa as far as I can find but could there be a longer main spring that possibly had a higher arch to create the proper eye to eye measurement? I’ve seen a few that when I viewed the shackle angle just left me scratching my head. Figured I’d finally ask. With out the ramble: Are there different model A/AA main leafs for the front?
According to the Judging Standards all Model A passenger car's use the same front spring. The rears used five different springs, with a mix and match of each car using different number of leaves and thicknesses. There is no mention of the main leaf being different.
Man I’m stumped. I started with what appeared to be a model A front sprongnwith some extra leafs. Figured AA or accessory pack. Well it’s on an A axle and the shackles are pushed down to somewhere in the 26-30 deg range nearly bottoming out the travel of the shackle. Not only that but it sorta kinda high for a pack with 7 leafs and a reversed main. I’ll try to find a photo of what I started with as I’m sure that’ll help
Bottom one obviously The extra leafs over what stock passenger car should be were duplicates it’s pretty easy to see the steps were they are in the photo -I’ll add they are all stamped ford
This is it on the car. Dropped A axle, 46 wishbone, speedway hangers. Nothing that hasn’t been done a million times before. I pulled a bunch leafs, radiused the leafs on the ends- rounded the tips and rounded the contact side of the edge- reversed the main and cut the one just over the main back to clear the reversed eye. I’ve got a lot of hours in this spring pack so I’m hopping I’m just out the time reversing an improper main and not the whole thing.
I don't remember any model A with that many leaves.. Are the ends of the leaves all the same?? I can't tell in your pic.. It looks like some are tapered and some have square ends.. Just an observation....
It was just three more leaves than stock, I googled it when I got it and a few ford barn conversations popped up so it didn’t really strike me as too odd. I was to say they were all the same shape on the ends. I’ll see if I can find a photo from when I was rounding them off.
Photo from taking the pack apart. I went threw a few more photos to confirm they were all shaped the same with the slanted corners. I still have all the leafs I pulled in the shop somewhere but this photo shows it well enough I think. The pack had 13 now is has 7
When you reverse the main spring it essentially gets longer. That will make the shackles stand more straight up and down. Dave
Do you have an A or B perch bolt to compare to the Speedway unit? Just by looking at it I don't think it has as much offset as a stock Ford perch. Remember, it was probably designed for a front end with split radius rods where clearance would not be as much as an issue with the rod attached to the frame rail at the rear.
All Model A passenger car's used a 10 leaf front spring PN A-5310-A. A 12 leaf, front spring, PN A-5310-B, was available for "Special Equipt Chassis". You say that your spring leaves are stamped Ford. I purchased my first Model A in 1969 and have had others but have never seen Model A, spring leaves stamped Ford. You might have an aftermarket spring.
Yeah I’m thinking it’s the special equipment chassis spring. The leaves are stamped ford in ford script so I’m thinking it’s factory but maybe an option? They have always been hard asses about anyone else stamping ford or ford in there lettering style on anything. But ever leaf had it. I’ll find a photo at some point today, I’m sure there’s one in my build thread. It does seem that maybe the leafs themselves are a little thicker than standard also? But that could just be me. Anyone care to measure one they have?
yup, when you reverse the arch they get longer. draw an arch on the floor with chalk. now draw the shackle eyes, one on the outside (top) of the arch like your reversed spring, now draw an eye on the inside like stock. see your longer spring? only cure is a higher arch. mine ended up about 31 1/2", and speedway sells the stock bottom leaf at 31" reversed, or stock. i wonder if they took this into consideration when making the spring
could possible be leaf springs out of a later 30s Ford...these later axles are 2" between spring perches longer pre 37 are 36.5" perch to perch...38 and later are 38.5" perch to perch...go to Sids Dropped Axles and look at the axle differences and I think you may find the answer. Let us know what you find Ron
Having worked the 'blacksmith' end of the trade in last year of apprenticeship, (when apprenticeships were designed to TRAIN for the future) I rolled more eyes than Marilyn Monroe! (Morgan Spring Wks., inc. Est. 1870, Autumn St., San Jose, CA.) There was a 'Standard', but most guys didn't adhere solidly to it: 'Main leaf of 37" stock, roll both evenly and cleanly, after grinding a seating chamfer for each.' The beginning 'value' was for a yet-to-be rolled leaf. Custom leaves were rolled to order. In 1961, Model A Ford leaves weren't the order-of-the-day: It was mostly repair leaves for International, Ford, Dodge trucks. Some passenger cars, etc. Shop had a good rep, mainly for having been in business so long. They still made buggy springs (for buggies, 'Spring' wagons, and farm implements) These springs could vary as much as 3/4" in length, according to who rolled the eyes... sometimes an eye would be 'wasped', (as the 'waist of a wasp' being smaller than the body) so the 'smitty' rolling the eye would roll it back a little, trim 1/2" off the end, re-chamfer, and re-roll. The center hole (if spec'd in the 'center' ) would be bored last of all. The drill press only used post-1956 or 7, all previous holes were punched when bright red, with a 'needle'...(slang for tapered punch, can't recall Smitty's term, been 60 years LOL) Point being, if the leaf is not a stamped 'Model A', then it's likely it's a 'new' (replacement) leaf sometime back, and that an 'eye-to-eye' spec wasn't rigidly adhered to! Novices here should visit a spring shop. It's hardly a CNC standard that's held... there are some of these shops even today.
mike, i take it you have never been out of california? east of the rockys the only marks on old leaf springs are deep black pits and loose scale
Where would someone look for a model A stamp on a leaf? I’ll find the lose ones I took out and look at them later
Early '28 "AA" truck had regular "A" axle & spring "pack", except had more leaves, but were recalled to trade out for a "new" "A-A" axle due to failures(too week for the loads) The early unit used the same kingpin & spindle(except for the hub/drum with the "A-A" bolt pattern & studs). You can check out the details over on the "fordaatruckcenter" website by asking about suspension details. (DO NOT MENTION "HOT-RODS" : those guys are "PURISTS" & get offended EASILY!!) LOL!
I’ll have to give that a look! This is the first time I’ve heard mention of a different AA axle. In all my searches I’ve only found them being the same. Curious if there’s any visual cues that give it away... another thread another time I suppose.
There were two axles used under heavy commercial vehicles. The first was identical to the passenger car and discontinued in January of 1930, when the steel disc wheel was introduced. The heaver axle came out after that date. The front spring for the AA was PN, AA-5310-A , same width but heaver leaves. In 1930 Ford redesigned the commercial front crossmember to accommodate a wider, 2 and 1/4", PN, AA-5310-C, 13 leaf spring. When the 157" wheelbase truck was introduced in mid 1930 a 14 leaf spring PN, AA-5310-D, was added.
Well, it’s not the wider 2 1/4 spring. How thick were the heavier springs? Seems like it could be something to measure to tell the difference between the two. Also dig threw the pile of leaves I removed from the front and back and the only one I found stamped ford was from the back. Maybe I just found them on the back ones. Stamped both sides of the tie bolt on the top of each leaf. the one I’m holding is the one I photographed so it’s a few in, it’s not like it was just the main or top
Go look at SoCal's web site or their catalog. They offer 3 different front springs. A 29 1/4", a 30", & a 31 1/2" depending to which axel you are using. One of these might fit your axel.
This is a dropped stock A axle, the perch pin measurements are stock so a stock spring should work. I know I can find a spring that fits I’m just trying, more or less, to figure out what this one is because it doesn’t work
No, you are wrong. Just because it's a stock A axle doesn't mean the reversed stock main leaf will fit. As said above, reversing the leaf makes the eyes farther apart. Years ago there was a good article in Rod & Custom Magazine actually showing this phenomenon. Hard to believe, but it's true. I think there was at least an inch of extra width. Edit: I couldn't find the R&C article, but here's an article showing the problem https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1103rc-eaton-leaf-springs/ For some reason (maybe he's an off-roader?) the author wanted to re-arch his reversed spring to standard, and found his spring was now 2 inches shorter.
I can see how that could happen, at this point it’s what must have happened. I scribed it all out and made sure the eyes landed where they started but at this point what else could it be? This makes me ask 2 questions. 1: if your going to have to add a bunch of arch back in to make up for reversing the spring aren’t you basically ending up where you started? Reversed eyes should net you an inch drop but this thing needs to be quite a lot narrower so you’d easily add another inch of arch bringing it back narrow? 2: in over twenty years of reading about people reversing leafs this is the very first time I’ve ever heard anyone mention this problem. @Ron Brown did you deal with this? I guess that this is what’s happened as it’s really the only thing that makes and since at this point.
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