Technical Starter relay necessary ?

Yes I know what you're saying, I fully understand what you're saying, I can completely envision doing it as you explain,

The relay you say to add is ok but if one uses the ford starter relay which is a just a relay then it's over complicated because you see no point in two. Clear as a bell and I can see where you're coming from. The wires you want add or change to heavier guage and connect at the starter making it more complicated is clearly a better idea than simply eliminating all but one elecrical connection at the starter,

Got it, I'm getting out of the way

 

It's a shame you two " me too " Charlie's seem to believe your way is the only / best way of doing things , it's equally puzzling to think that you can bully people by teaming up . I'm still hear and I'll still keep presenting alternate ideas as I see fit . AFA my suggestion to use painless #30202 "hot shot kit",any fool can get less expensive parts to emulate thier kit ,and , I still believe it's a simpler alternative if one were to bother to do a bit of research ...

 

2o2f said "
I see no point in adding a (relay) ford starter solenoid
All you have to do is add a relay

And Here I thought we were getting someplace,,,

It's all good there buddy, I know you want to correct the huge error in this. However you can't do it by starting with us,,, you'll have to go to the Ford engineering department and then for sure an absolute must,,, the GM engineering Dept and tell them to stop recommending the procedure using Ford parts to correct a hot start problem on high performance applications.

Remember in all actuality the Ford starter solenoid is NOT a Ford designed part nor a solenoid. It's just a long standing standard industrial contactor adapted by Ford.
And ! " Solenoids " apply external motion, a "Relay" simply closes or opens an electrical circuit. The object in question here is a relay no matter if you want to call it a solenoid or not it's still only capable of being a relay

 

And there's the line in the sand to op's original question. Answer, yes and no. Only the condition's will dictate.

 

Hey man, YOU better be careful when commenting and agreeing with me Charlie
Didn't you see that post?

 

LMAO

 

Looking for a part number for this starter connector, my home grown jumper wire broke. Thanks!

 

Here is one option
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MIy7ePgfuN5wIVYpJbCh0gywVnEAkYBiABEgK7sfD_BwE
Here is a different type

https://www.ebay.com/p/655549461?ii...MIu8mBgv2N5wIV5JJbCh3-igoqEAkYAiABEgJsfvD_BwE

You could make either of these easily. Use heavy gauge wire.
Phil

 

Thanks. I saw the quick car one at Summit. Similar to the one I had that broke at the S terminal. The ring broke off the lug. I used 10 gauge wire and good lugs and shrink tube. Will hit Ace tomorrow for .031 copper sheet, fab a few up and dip them in a solder pot at work.

 

This looks like number off Motorcraft box. I'm trying to find a source with photo.
Motorcraft SZ-654 C8VY-11072-A

Phil

 

Thanks Phil. I tried a search with no luck but will try again today.

 

Picked up some .025" copper sheet at a hobby store, measured up a spare starter and have a CAD drawing going, need to make up a simple bending fixture to put the joggle in the piece.

 

I have heard a lot of explanations on why or why not the Chevy type starters have problems and Fords don’t. I also ran into this same no start problem on my 20 Hp lawn mower engines that have the same style starter as the Chevies. The solution on these were to put an additional Bosch type relay to put more power to the starter solenoid, worked perfectly every time. Did a bunch of them.
I have rarely found one of the Ford type solenoid/relays ever go bad. But have repaired hundreds of the plunger type solenoids.
People seem to blame the heat as a factor and while I don’t disagree, I think another factor is involved. Speed! The Chevy type solenoid has to move the starter drive , also. So, it moves slower than the Ford type relay. This slamming of the Ford type relay results in better contact of points and less arcing. Arcing of the contact points is one of the major problems in any relay. After a period of arcing the contact surface becomes compromised, thus restricting the flow of electricity and producing more arcing, eventually restricting the electricity to the point of a no start condition .
I have “ cleaned “ hundreds of plunger type ( Chevy) solenoid contacts and made them work. Have only replaced maybe two Ford solenoid/relays on a starter system in my career .
Just my thoughts.


PS: a lot of the plunger type solenoids I have repaired have been on industrial applications , where the starter is in a location as to not be in an over heated area. Such as on the side of a straight six, open to the atmosphere, and not near the exhaust. And actually in a cooler area than a Ford solenoid under a hood.





Bones

 

Ok... the Standard Ignition P/N is SZ-654, the Motorcraft P/N is C8VY-11072-A.
Any listing I come up says it is obsolete, one place I saw it for sale but with no picture, which looked to be a click-bait link. eBay... nothing. I may as well go make the darn thing.

 

OK... I'll call it done. Found some .025" copper at a hobby shop (K&S brand) and went out to the shop and made 2 of them. I'll see if I can get them solder-dipped at work later on.