Technical Need advice of how to correct the door gap.

Granny always said "Free advice is usually worth exactly what you paid for it." another that fits pretty good = " Never ask a fool for advice "

 

Not sure what you’re getting at there Dave.
From my point of view a 35 -40 frame looks like King Kong played with it for a while. Nothing on it is straight, and having the body together is probably THEE only way tell how bad an old frame might be off.

You can measure some things on it but most of it you can’t really get accurate numbers or know what’s off. You’d need a very accurate drawing and plot the points like a boat builder tradesmen. Or a fabrication jig, and set the frame into it. The Wescott 35-40 print is ok but they’re measuring from a center line that’s 2 dimensions, the frame is 3. Every dimension will be approximated or wrong off because of a hypotension. It’s a bunch different than 33-34 frame or 32 or model A.

Maybe you know it’s off but where??
Level the cross members,,, ok what if frame is bad at the corner you’re leveling? Level it at the body mounts,,, maybe that’s off then you’re chasing the wrong stuff.
Pushing or shimming the frame to a well fitting body will show you exactly where things are off. If he needs a 1 “ shim at the cowl with the crossmembers leveled where is the frame off? At the mount or was it bad at the leveling points?

Think about a well fitted body free from the frame
And maybe even tacked together. Now bring the crazy frame to it.... the well aligned body will tell you where that frame is off and how to adjust it.

The horse has already gotten out but If the body was welded together with perfect gaps and windshields that fit nice but won’t bolt down to the frame what would you cut apart? I’d proceed exactly the way it started.,,, build the entire body and make the frame fit, even if you’ve got to cut the frame. That frame May very well need to be pushed, pulled or bent back into shape. Even building a chassis under the body if you have to.

I’ve done a bunch of this frame and chassis stuff. I’ve got quite a bit into this 54 Chevy truck and
The last one was a Chevy avalanche that went off the road square into a ditch. Minimal body damage but bent the hell out of the frame , straight up at the front. The insurance company totaled it. I straightened the frame on the machine. It took me all damn day but it was perfect body panel alignment when I was done. Started with the core support 6”-8” too high. Took it to the front end shop and it was all in the specs. He was happy very very happy and drives like it never happened

 

Here’s a couple,
‘40 but same frame
Old one and a new one

 

When I had the frame off I tried all I could think of to level it but like you said, there ain't a straight length on the frame. Curved in all directions. I leveled the frame rails and crossmembers. It all leveled out. To make matters more complicated the PO installed suicide door hinges. He was at least good enough to pin the hinges. I'll pin them, set the gaps and tack a couple plates across the doors then let it sit on the chassis.

 

So I've got the body bolted down tight. Had to get creative to replace the broken rear bolts. All that being done the body is flat on the chassis now. I've got the passengers door adjusted in the zone. The drivers door is still way out. I believe the root of the problem is this is where the experiment started. The roof looks Fugazi as does the door. The suicide hinge kit seems to have been installed with much difficulty. I'll increase the amount of adjustment in all directions but first I'll remove the door and check the fit. If it looks good I'll tack the doors in place and rework the hinges.

 

The gap around the door on the inside should be relatively even all the way around I think,

The door jamb should be pretty straight too

 

Today I took the doors off the hinges to see how the door fit the hole untethered. I can get the door in. I get an uneven gap at the B-pillar , wide at the top tapering down to none at the bottom. On the hinges the door hits the roof on the front curve.

At this point I humbly ask for advice on where to place the shims. Shiming the first two mounts dont make it. I know there's a science to this but I really need fast help in tweaking the body back to how it was. I really dont want to give in to my frustration and start cutting things I didn't have to. If I decide to keep this car I'll look into locating another frame or possible buy a new one. For the now I need to overcome this challenge so I move on to the floors, cowl, quarter and tail panel repairs.

 

Pictures?? Of this ^^

If you look at this pic from the other day.

It’s not a good fit.
Wide at the top and tight in the curve but we can’t see all of it.

 

It's easy to see by eye but hard to catch on camera. Will take some more pics today after I remove the seats so I can get up in there.

 

You’re B pillar looks sorta ok but it’s off a bit.
But the door top needs to come back,,,,
Looks like they pushed it forward because the roof started curving to fast and too early cause that B pillar is off a little bit.


Here’s my stock 35,
You should have the same gaps before and after a chop.

 

Some better pics from inside

 

I laid the hood in place and can see it's about an an inch too high. Has me thinking that if I spaced the cowl it would only compound that error.

 

Do you have a pic of the passenger side inside?


What shown of the door looks pretty good but most of that is below the chop

 

Here ya go

 

Ok, you see the obvious differences here?
It’s like 2 different guys worked on each side or they had one side against the wall and then turned the car to do the other.

 

Right you are. My thought was they/he/she/it/ze/zer did the drivers side first. Made the common mistakes, failed a fixing them then moved on to the other side and did better.

 

Ok mister Do it over ,,,,

 

Haha see what I did there?

 

Stretching a triangle is hard.
Sectioning a circle is hard.

Stretching a curved triangle with semi circles is just as hard but takes much longer. It comes out fucked up if you use straight pieces.

 

I made a rought template of the window opening of the good side and wasn't surprised to find the difficult side opening was taller by almost 3/16". My thoughts are that 3/16" wasn't at all noticeable by eye so if I dropped the window frame by 1/4 - 5/16" I dont think it would be that noticeable if at all. Any one who points it out can enjoy a punch in the eye.

The blue lines are my guess on where I'd cut. I'd push back at the lower B-pillar to align it to the body. Cutting a wedge out of the upper B-pillar should bring the top of the door down to clear the roof. Other cuts as needed to shape. Maybe add some metal.

 

I find it interesting that things that stand out by eye can't always be picked up in a pic.

 

as far as the hood goes, you need to have the cowl lacing on and the center hinge adjusted to the middle.

 

As far as that door goes,, the easiest thing to correct will be the edge,,, so when you cut it fit the inner structure and the window opening. Come back and add/weld to the edge or subtract/grind it back.

 

Oh and study you’re fugazi roof.
Might need a tweak to get right

 

Ya think ?

 

BUT, have you measured out your frame yet to see if its straight and true and all that fun stuff? If your foundation is off 1/8 of an inch, that 1/8 carries upwards and can end up being a lot at the top. I may be wrong. But I'd start by getting the frame true. then getting the body true on the frame. and adjust from there as I go. No point in chasing your tail and making crooked parts to cover a crooked foundation.

Id also look into media blasting the whole thing. Clean up that scale inside, and uncover all the hidden sins under that primer. I realize it doesnt work in humid areas, but where I come from bare metal in a building stays metal a while. Then you dont wonder whats hiding.

 

I understand and agree with all you're saying. When the body was off I did measure in an attempt to check for square. I also leveled the frame rails and checked then against the front and rear crossmembers. It all looked pretty good. Will certainly strip all the paint off but stripping the entire inside will have to wait till winter. After 80+ years I don't expect a chassis that was designed to twist and flex to be dead nuts straight. I'm also not trying to build a perfect car. I have no way correct a frame if it was bent. IMO the whole car is crooked due to the previous work done . There's no making it RIGHT without cutting the roof, doors and firewall inro pieces and starting from there. My goal is to make it look and fit OK. This car is too far gone for anything else. I'll use this new found knowledge when searching for and building my next street rod.

 

A very high percentage of first-timer top chops end up just this way, and a very high percentage of those bodies get junked because they are messed up beyond redemption. In your case I'd agree that the first step is to take the doors off and get the body shell fitting properly to a straight frame. You may have to cut some of the previous welding loose to get this done.

It's my guess that the previous builder used jacks and straps to pull the top and body around as the chop was being done and has everything cattywampus. You can cut and fit the doors but it still won't look "right" until everything is straight. Go back to the basics and start again. Good luck!

EDIT: You beat me to it with your last post. However... I would caution you against building your newfound skills by fudging somebody else's bad work. That might make you a really good fudger but not a good builder. There's a huge difference. Again, good luck with your project.

 

Be patient and systematic starting from the bottom up (as others have said). It's only metal...measure, develop a plan, cut, change, modify as necessary, weld, repeat. Bad work done can be undone and corrected. When you're done it makes for great cruise night stories of triumph with all that you had to do to bring the car to roadworthy status.

It's all part of the journey. Enjoy the trip.

 

What part of the world are you in??
And where did the car come from??

Chopping cars is cool....
making everything work again is the hard part the devil is in the details.