Hot Rods Just noticed this last night.

I think you have a bit of a collector problem. Too bad nothing runs.
Oh, and i know the wallet thing quite well.

 

You are at a crossroad. First off, what you see may be the tip of the iceberg. At least get the other side head off and see what you find. It may pay to tear it down and have the block checked by a shop for cracks.

 

I don't know how I'd go about trying to repair that. the hole looks way oversize and if round would protrude past the sealing surface of the gasket. Is that weld material on the face?
If it were mine I would try and leave that mess undisturbed, and maybe explore the use of a custom stud that would go deeper into the block and use some sort of a nut inside the water jacket. I remember seeing some illustrations in a very old book showing such a repair. The head nuts don't need to be mega tight. It might be that a custom stud, say 10mm dia might do the trick if it could be anchored effectively.
Obviously I'd never admit to considering such a back yard repair on a world wide forum.

Oh damn.

Mart.

 

OK, this sucks for you.

How was the motor running? are you getting a lot of blowby (crank case pressure)?

Let me tell you a little story. When I had my model A with an 8BA in it. I bought the car with a rebuilt motor. It ran really really well. I drove that car for 4 years. My only complaint was that they was some blowby, that caused crank case pressure that would push some vaporized oil out of the breathers. Understandable for an old motor.
I wanted to go to the Jalopy Showdown in Lattimore PA, about a 5 hour drive for me. I also wanted to put on my newly acquired Aluminum Edelbrock heads for the show. 2 nights before the show I decided to install the heads. I pulled the passenger head, installed the aluminum head, looked great. Went to the drivers side. Pulled the cast head and found a hole in number 4 piston. I mean a 3/16 hole in the piston. There was some marks in the piston face as you showed in your pictures. I didn't want to damage the aluminum heads. I put the cast head back on the drivers side. pulled the Aluminum head from the passenger side, put the cast head back on.

The next day, I drove that car with that motor 290 miles to Latimore and back with a 3/16 freaking hole in the piston. I drove that motor for 2 more season with that hole in the piston. Never missed a beat. Never had a problem until it punched another hole in in piston 2. At that point it still ran great, just way down on power. Built up a new short block, replaced the motor and later sold the car.

That flathead gave me some new respect for the durability of these motors. So, I guess I am saying, don't let those dents in the piston face scare you off. If it ran good and you have a couple head bolts that are messed up. fix the head bolts and DRIVE ON. Now you know you need to work on building up a new motor and replace it when it really becomes a problem. Don't let a couple dents in a piston face and broken head bolt deter you from driving and enjoying the car.

 

I do get a little blow by but only a very little. It was running well before all of this and I'm not overly concerned about the piston. I'm going to attempt to repair the hole and take it from there. I just don't want to give the previous owner shit for his repair an do one myself only one step better. As shitty as his repair was it didn't leak until I saw it and messed with it. At least on the outside. It did appear to be leaking into the valve a little. I'm also wondering if the repair was done by the guy he bought it off and if he knew about it. He probably did but it wasn't that noticeable and I drove it pretty hard and everyday for a month and a half with no leaks. Even on the day I got it I drove 50 miles at 60 mph on the highway without a problem. The only reason I'm saying that is I got a really good vibe from the owner and he didn't seem like the type of POS that would sell it knowing it was repaired like that. I could be wrong but I'm usually a good judge of people but it doesn't really matter now. Thanks for the advice.

 

It is a weld from an attempted crack repair gone wrong. The type of repair you described sounds pretty scary. I'm going to try to grind out some of the weld and try to get the rest of the stud out. if I can do that then try to get a tap in there. If I take my time maybe I'll get lucky. At this point it's worth giving it a try. If it doesn't I'll just rebuild it. I am scoping out other engines right now. I'm looking for a 1946 so I can use some of my parts on it but I'm open to other ones if the price is right.

 

I did take off the other side and it appears to be okay. I posted a picture of it on here. If I tear it down having a shop check for cracks would be the first thing I did. You are right I am at a crossroad but I have time to figure out which direction to take.

 

Yeah it is a problem. Tried to thin the herd but didn't have much luck. The Pontiac runs but I can't drive it in the snow. Has drum brakes and is an air ride. pretty scary even in the rain.

 

I just finished reading the whole thread and I know how you feel. It seems to happen to me every time I pay good money to buy someone else’s work. So you’re not alone. Those old flatheads are mighty forgiving aren’t they? We pulled the heads off of a buddy’s flathead just to reseal a water leak and found similar carnage but it was running fine. Cracks and chips and nicks and dings, it looked like it had been used for target practice. I would do the needed repair, button it back up with the best sealers money can buy and build another motor as the budget allows. That way you can still enjoy the car a little while you satisfy your OCD.


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In the machine shop business, there is an acid sometimes used to MELT steel in an iron casting.
When a part (cast iron) has gone thru a number of machining operations, it has become 'costly'. If a steel stud or bolt (or drill or mill end) has broken off in the casting, the machinist can apply this acid to the hole where the broken steel entity is.
Not long, (inside 30 minutes I am told) the acid burns the steel into ash. Then is blown out, and if the 'bore' is threaded, just chased with a tap.
My son told me about this, I can ask him later today. (Acid is not 'sulpheric', but something with similar properties...(read: 'esoteric')

 

If the motor runs as well as you said, I agree that all you need to do is fix what's broken. But I also agree that you should fix that correctly. And that should, as a previous comment said, include pulling and replacing all the studs. Because if they have been there all these years and gone thru who knows how many removal and replacement cycles on the nuts, countless heating and cooling cycles with running, they can,t be something you can be sure won't either strip out or break off when you put the heads back on and retorque a new set of nuts.
Also, forget about welding up the hole and redrilling and tapping. The hear from welding up that hole will most likely distort and warp cylinder walls and head seating surfaces to the point a complete remachine of the block all over would be required. The various inserts and helicoils mentioned earlier are all adequate to repair this after you get the rest of that old stud out.
And as for all the other projects you have started and still unfinished, unless you have a budget and a facility like Jay Leno, pick a priority project and finish it, then move to the next, one at a time. I won't call names, but I have several friends and acquaintances who have fallen into that trap and have several projects started and none finished.

 

I feel really fixing it correctly is the best option. I'm going to start with try to get the old stud out. Then see were I stand. As far as my projects I was trying to sell my Pontiac and I didn't expect to have my Hot Rod turn into a project. The one project (64 C10) I thought was going well until this. I'm building it to be my daily driver. I'd still like to sell the Pontiac but I'm not going to give it away. I was asking better than a fair price for it but it seem no matter how much I lowered the price people would want me to go down more. At a certain point you have to say no more. So my goal was C10 for daily and Hot Rod for fun.

 

EDIT: Sorry, this product was used extensively 10 years ago, (hadn't kept up with it, so wasn't aware it had pitfalls)
The name of it was 'TAP OUT', and it did work...but had a tendency to sometimes take material out of the bore...(sigh...)
Back to left hand drill bits, I'd say...

 

That sounds interesting. Let me know.

 

Thanks anyway.

 

I would use a die grinder to cut the weld back a little. Drill out the stud and rebuild the hole with a helicoil. Leave the old studs where they are. This motor is not something that I would put a lot of value on. Fix it up and run it as is. The more you dig into it, the more you will need to fix and the more it will cost. Find another motor to spend your money on.

 

That is my plan. I agree.

 

^^^^^^^^^^Yeah, leave the old studs in it, then buy gaskets and start bolting it all back together, and when you're torquing the last head bolt nut and that old stud breaks you'll start thinking about the gaskets and work and time you've already wasted and the time and work to tear it back down again to where you were. And now it has another broken stud, or maybe more than just one more if others snapped while tearing down!
Use lots of penetrating oil and heat on those old studs and remember how old they are, be patient and persistent till you get them all out and replaced, IMO.

 

I skimmed the last couple pages, but I'm going to drop my next .02 here. I would fix that engine as well as you can without tearing it down or spending a load of money. Get it running again and have fun with it (closer to home mostly). That way, if you blow it, which I doubt, you won't be out a ton of money into a junk block.

Spend your time and money building a nice new flathead to drop in next.

There are lots of engines and blocks around still. A lot of us have at least one or two in our pile. You can usually get a turner for a couple hundred or less in New England. OR if you want to spend big money you can get a French block from So-Cal and build it up also.

If you don't blow this one up before then, you'll have hopefully a half decent still running beater to pass along to someone who just wants a runner to get down the road or track in for kicks.

 

Had a few others make the same suggestion. I kind of want to just take care of it now while it's winter but you are right I could probably get some more time out of it. Thing is sometimes opportunities come you way and if I had someone interested in my car I couldn't sell it for the money I would want with that P.O.S. block in it. I'm looking at 46 Flathead blocks now to rebuild it right. Also looking at full rebuilt motors too. Keeping my options open. If I can get a long block like mine my engine has a lot of good parts I can transfer over to it. We'll see.

 

Thanks Dave. Right now I wish all I had was a broken stud.

 

Reiterating ... lesson to younger selves : stop thinking every project needs to be completely started anew.

Translation : just fix it first, if at all possible.
Always = cheaper possibilities.

 

Oh I'm going to try but looking at the hole I have to work with it will be a challenge to get it back in shape. I am looking for something better to work with also.

 

Man, that block probably ran like that for a long time. I would not freak out about it. Just fix it as best you can and put it back on the road in the spring. THEN focus on a nicer engine build.

 

That's looking like the plan for now.

 

Picking this up on Monday. I want to thank @Koz. Super nice guy. Not looking forward to the 13 hours of driving but the purchase I'm sure will make up for it. I don't need the tranny or heads if anybody does let me know.

 

Oh, I don't know about this one. All that black paint just doesn't look right

 

He's going to pull the heads and the pan to show what he stated about it is true. Claims it super clean with no cracks, no Heli coils, can see the cross hatching on the cylinder walls and can see it had a valve job. He seems to care about his reputation here on the HAMB. I already looked at a couple others that I passed up on after closer inspection. So I'm hoping I like what I see but I will be being careful. I saw it here in the parts for sale section and when I told him who I was he said he saw my story on here. He then assured me I would not be disappointed and after talking to him for a while he seems genuine. We will see but I have a pretty good feeling about it. Thanks and I understand your concerns about the paint. If it seems to good to be true it probably is. Hopefully that's not the case.

 

Just to dispel the usual HAMB negativity, (LOL), I'm posting a few pics of the motor as I was putting it together. I pulled the pan and the like because I too no longer believe anything anybody says. As can be seen the motor was spotless inside and out and I did not wash or clean it, (other than usual paint prep), and checked everything out for cracks and damage before new gaskets and seals. The motor was exactly like the fellow I bought it from described and I have no reason to believe he misrepresented anything. The only reason I painted it was I was going to set it in my T roadster, that I just sold this week. The last pic is of the roadster. and obviously I wanted it to look decent.

I was running the stock heads on this one because some asshole, (who is on here!), fucked me on a pair of heads that I paid for and turned out to be scrap when they arrived, obviously frozen and cracked like a fried marble. I returned the heads to him and he just kept the cash. Sadly, I'm starting to believe the old days of the HAMB when we trusted each other are gone.

Some pics of the motor that show condition prior to assembly and prior to paint. I've got a load of people mad at me who wanted this motor. I sold it right around half of what I have in it and I appreciate the sale and I feel it is going to a good guy. This is quite possibly the nicest one I've had in here in years. I've already done this deal and I'll hold up my end. The rest of the flattys and parts I have been putting up for sale are going to the scrap rather than have the hard feelings from a sale that isn't what somebody felt was fair.

 

The pics above didn't come out in the right order! The motor was not washed or cleaned in any way prior to taking those pics. You can see in the last pic if you click on it the rods and the like have just been done. They still have the builders paint marks on from the balance work. The motor was claimed to have 1500 mi. on it and I have no reason to believe it not to be true.