I have been messing around with these old Hemi's for quite a while. Over the years I have owned probably 20 of them, I have 5 right now. last week I was cruising around looking at the different cl***ifieds and found yet another one of the critters. This one was pretty close, I say close because I have had one of the 5 shipped to me from 2,000 miles away, this one was about a 100 miles or so one way. The price was very cheap for an early Hemi and in the pictures on the ad I can plainly see a set of what look to be just rebuilt adjustable rockers. Anyone following these early Hemi's knows these rockers are going for a premium price, and the complete engine is priced below the going price for some of these adjustable rockers. Man says the engine is fresh and was built a ""FEW"" years ago for a project that never came to be. Wife and I make the drive over there and the motor looks damn sad. It does have the rebuilt rockers ( a big Plus) but the rest looks like hell. It has pitting all over the block and the ID numbers are unreadable, both the ID number in front of the valley pan as well as the casting number. Man says it has a new set of pistons (he thinks). I tell him I want to pull a head and see what is in there, and he balks badly at doing this. So I tell him that "If" I do not buy the engine I will pay for a new head gasket and they run around a $100.00. He agrees and I pull one head. Well it turns out there are a brand new, never run set of Ross Forged doomed pistons in there. It also came with a brand new polished Weiand 7263 2x4 Manifold and two brand new Edelbrock 500 cfm carbs. Well that and the rockers and the give away price I bring it home. Since I cannot ID what block this is, and the man thought it was a 331 I decided to mic the pistons and the bores which are just as fresh as the day they were bored and that bore job looks like it was done yesterday. Bores mike out at 3.94 which is standard for a 354 inch motor, but wait the bore's are very fresh and the motor has been bored and honed that is perfectly clear. The pistons are unmarked as to size leaving me to think they are standard. They do have a weird 7 digit number engraved into there tops, doesn't look like a part number for a piston but me research brings up nothing on that number. About that time a buddy calls he is a brother HAMBER (woodsnwater) on here and also a Hemi nut. He is at work and with the number is trying to find something on it. The Ross logo is inside the pistons, so Keith decides he will call Ross. Dude it Ross is a very cool guy and a fountain of information. He tells Keith that the number is NOT a part number but the job# from when the pistons were made. He finds the original work order ad it turns out that these eight pistons were part of a bigger order. The order was for 40 pistons and this order which was filled in 2003 went to PAW in California. They are stock bore 354 pistons with a compression ratio of 10 to 1. So here is what I think I have. It is either one of PAW's crate Hemi's that they sold for many years. I believe it is a 331 block bored to 354 size or .125 over. That bothered me a little so I sonic checked the block. The numbers I came up with are an average for each cylinder, all cylinders measured in 10 different places-- #1- .217--#2- .216 #3- .219 #4- .217 #5- .214 #6-.217 #7-.220 #8-.218 . After seeing those numbers I felt much better. I have spoken to many Hemi guy's and all of them say you can run an engine as thin as .160. So if that is a good number there even could be a mild rebore sometime in the future of say .020 or maybe even .030. I will never do that as this is going in my little Model A and will see mild use over the years. This engine came with out any of the tin, and because the bottom end was exposed for no telling how long it had to come completely apart. Got the crank out and the rod and main bearings looked like brand new, crank was very nice and .010-.010, there also was no oil pump. Got every thing washed and dried ( time consuming job) and she is now going back together. Goal is to get it finished and fire it off not this Saturday but one week from then. Only reason as I promised my buddy "woodsnwater" that I wouldn't start it without him being here. That and I am waiting on parts for my run in stand and the, hundred other bits it takes to run one of these things. I will post pic's as I take them and a video of it running for sure. Even going to show the engine swap of pulling the Small Block Chevy and the Hemi install. This was the sad start. Travel tin installed. Little paint pistons back in there holes, the writing and the marks were all there when it came apart. Freeze plugs, core plugs, sand knock out plugs, cylinder aligning holes, or what ever those holes on the side of most engines that "YOU" choose to use as a term for them plugs, Mopar disc type installed. This picture is just to show how nice these Ross pistons are considering they have been inside this engine for 17 years Getting a little closer and a few more dollars bolted on. Ready for the heads.
Hope so Lil'Alb, that's the plan any ways. As I said earlier I have owned around 20 Early Hemi's over the years. Funny thing about that is of all of those Hemi's I only got to use one of them. That was a 49 F1 Ford and I installed the only non Chrysler Hemi I ever owned into it, it was a 330 Desoto, got the damn thing into the truck and got it to running really well and let a guy talk me into a swap on that Hemi Truck I have felt like a jack-*** ever sense.
Glad you found a good one, hope you get to enjoy it for a while! I am gathering parts to build a 291 Desoto. Just got a fireflite 4 bbl intake from another HAMBer. Still need to save up for that $1800 rebuild kit. My block and crank are magnafluxed Aok and honed. Can't remember but I think it's no more than .030 over. Know of a source for 10:1 pistons for a 291? I'm thinking ROSS sounds like a good bet or Egge machine.
Egge is hit or miss, as an example I know of three guys who have been waiting on a set of 331 pistons for over a year and still no luck. The have 354 and 392 but don't seem to want to help some folks. On the other hand ROSS will pretty much make you anything you want. Most of there orders are custom, now they are pricey, but that's the price you pay when dealing with this old stuff. Also I don't guess I understand the $1800 rebuild kit. What is included in a kit like that and you still need pistons?
Correct I won't be needing a lot of things that would be included in the $1800 rebuild kit. In fact I am sure I'd be money ahead to skip that and piece the rebuild parts together as needed.
Thanks for the piston info by the way! I haven't dealt with egge for years and they were fine but it sounds like Ross was really helpful
Hombre, That is really a nice engine to find . It never hurts to look a little closer,,,sometimes you find a diamond in the rough . A lot of people might have turned their back on it at first sight,,,,without looking deeper . Great job,,,,great find too ! Tommy
Thanks guy's, yea even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while. Busy getting it more complete today, Heads are on, installing the push rods and lifters. I am using an Isky solid lifter cam and lifters. Another piece of this puzzle there as well: When I tore this engine apart to check clearance and such, it had a solid lifter cam and lifters. Cam was brand new with absolutely no evidence that it had ever been turned over, yet the lifters were a little rough many had a dog bowl dish on the bottom and one even was chipped badly on the lip. The cam did have a number engraved into the back of it. Once again all of my research found nothing on this cam number. I simply gave up looking. Well my wife cannot leave **** like this alone. She gets on the computer and looks for what seems like hours. She comes out to the shop and shows me a very interesting ad from years ago. Number engraved on the camshaft was 11462. I personally find it interesting that the only information she could find on that number is from an ad from PAW who went out of business around 2005 or so, but who I believe did in fact order the pistons for this engine. Notice that it says "Hydraulic Cams" in that ad. So why the used set of solid lifters?
Nice score, congrats! It’s great to see another early hemi getting screwed together and put back on the road.
Sounds like you made a great deal! Twenty Hemis and only one ended up in a car... you gotta work on that ratio! Hope you have a plan for running those 392 heads on a low deck 331/354 block. The heads will bolt down, but it causes a situation for the intake manifold and the water crossover manifold.
As I was reading your post I was wondering how you might know about the 392 heads. Where did you even get the idea that there were any 392 heads involved in this deal, I asked myself. Then I remembered that you and your Dad both are hemi guys, and you are running a 392 in that beautiful custom Mopar of yours. Then I looked at the pictures I posted, man the only heads I see are laying on the shop floor, then I scroll a little further back and there the damn things are. Setting on the engine with the travel tin. Yes sir you are right those are 392 heads, but hell you already knew that didn't you? I got two sets of heads with this engine, the 331/354 heads were still wrapped up in the plastic bags as they came from the machine shop. These 392 heads were the ones bolted to the block. I didn't even realize that until right now and I ran the casting numbers. Thank goodness I un-bagged the correct heads because I installed them today. Just to be sure I went back and ran those casting numbers as well. Nice catch!! You know as I set here pondering this, I am wondering why in the hell were those 392 heads even bolted down to this block? Did who ever built this engine even know the difference? Is that why I had a Hydraulic lifter cam and a set of used solid lifters in this engine? I mean is it even a Hydraulic lifter cam? Another mystery...
Regarding the used solid lifters, a cam grinder should be able to reface them. They might be useful to someone.
On the mention of Ross pistons, that's all we ever ran in our injected nitro 354's. Coated Ross pistons. And ***an rockers. Lippy
Well this little project is moving along pretty well. I got the heads installed today as well as the New lifters and about half of them adjusted. I also wanted to post a picture of the very nice Valve Covers that I purchased from a feller HAMBER "eddie" . I have purchased a lot of Hemi stuff from eddie over the last couple of years. Even bought a complete 392 Core from him. He had these valve covers and had no intentions of selling them, they were part of his hoard and he had owned them for many years. Story is they came off of an older AA/Fuel dragster. They are without a doubt in my opinion the nicest dimpled Valve Covers I have ever seen.
Chr heads will bolt onto any Chr block. But the 392 is a high deck block and they moded the 392 heads so the low deck intake & the 55-56 4 leg water pump can be bolted on, even though they used separate W/P and cross over on the 392. With 392 heads on a low deck block you'd have to weld up a 2 piece (U-Fab style) intake and fab/mod the water crossover
Don't they (or didn't they) make spacers that allowed you to use 392 heads on a low block engine with a stock dimension intake? I think you were on your own when it came to the cooling end of it (which is not a difficult problem to solve). It looks like a helluva find. I'm glad you got it, because if I found it first, I'd be even broker than I am now (with correspondingly less storage space). EDIT : I just checked, and it's the other way around. The spacers allow the use of early heads on a 392; sorry.
Got the critter together, heads on and valves adjusted. I must say I have always laughed at my buddy adjusting his valves with his adjustable "push rods", you need at least three hands and maybe four would be better. I thought I had it all over him with these adjustable rockers. This is not the first time I have adjusted with the adjustable rockers. On my blown 392, that I ended up selling before I ever even got to hear it run, I used another set of the adjustable rockers on that blown motor. It also had hydraulic cam and lifters, it was a breeze. This motor I decided to go with a solid lifter cam, well adjusting them even with the adjustable rockers is not for the meek. Box end in one hand, screw driver in another hand, and then you need another hand for the feeler gauge. I looked like a monkey trying to screw a basketball. Damn I am glad that is done, at least for now. I had to set that 2x4 manifold and carbs on there just to see how that is going to look. This is the blown 392 I sold.
That's a nice lookin' bunch of engines. Adjustable pushrods aren't so bad if you have a torch, a few extra 3/8" open end wrenches, and some creative bending abilities. I used to do the valves on the hemi in my dirt modified with an Engle roller for just about every meet,
An old trick my mentor taught me when adjusting valves. Put the feeler gauge you need between the rocker and valve stem tighten the adjusting screw down JUST ENOUGH that it holds the feeler gauge in place without holding it (Do not over tighten) then with the wrench and screwdriver on the adjuster tighten the lock nut as tight as you want it. Presto chango the feeler gauge SHOULD now slip out and the clearance will be perfect. It seems when you tighten the lock nut it pulls up on the adjuster just enough to let the feeler slip out. IF you have an extra pair of hands and have then hold the feeler just loose enough to slip in and out and you tighten the nut now it will have MORE clearence.
OK Bang, you are on to something there. Like you I am a night owl and since I am wide awake, and you sent this post at around 1:00 am I have got to go and give this a try. I will let you know how it works.
OK Bang here is the deal. I tried your mentor's trick worked kinda. So the problem was it always tightened to some degree. So I did this, This is an Isky Cam the cam card called for .018 clearance both intake and exhaust, So since it always tightened I used a .019 feeler gauge still to loose. Then I tried .020 and that did the trick perfect. I would run the .020 feeler gauge between the valve and the rocker, tighten down pretty tight on the adjuster screw, this is holding the .020 gauge damn tight, then tighten the set screw get the gauge out and then check with the .018 gauge and it has a very slight drag just like you want. This little trick worked real well just takes a few seconds per valve and no contortions. Thanks I owe you one or maybe two.
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