Hot Rods Real world cost of SBC rebuild vs crate engine?

Built a 350 3 years ago.
Bores were fine, so no pistons were purchased. It was homed, tanked, crank turned, new cam, rod, main bearings and rings.
New cam, lifters, timing components, pushrods, rocker arms and springs.
Heads were rebuilt including guides.
Nothing fancy.
Spent about $1200

 

If you don't look after your local machinist, he will close shop. Then no one to train new guys, years of knowledge lost, and no one to build your obscure vintage engine. It's happening here now. The good engine builders are older guys, no one to take their place.

 

It flat depends on how far you plan to go into it and if you intend to have someone do part or all of the work.
Overheated means it might be slightly iffy to just do a hone job with rings and bearings and have the heads done. I've freshened a lot of small blocks up with an 80 buck ring, bearing and gasket kit plus a timing set and got another 80K out of them. That was when I could do my own heads and when I had the stuff available to clean the block right.

Still if you are comfortable with assembling the engine you can buy a decent engine kit and have the machine work and come out with a nice engine for under 1000 unless local machine work for the block and heads are through the roof. That is a standard valve job, tank the block replace the cam bearings and bore the block.. It doesn't take many hours of assembly time to run the tab up though and the more trick work you ask for the higher the tab.

 

This is my thinking. A lot of good shops have closed up over the years. The guy who I use is 75 and partially retired, but other guys in the shop are great too. I had one shop when I was racing, I had talked with the owner on a Friday, went to pick up my heads the next day 1st thing... the guy had died in his sleep Friday night.

 

I have never understood the crate engine logic from guys that build their own cars.
I installed them when I worked in a rod shop due the boss not wanting to warranty them.
The crazy high HP stuff came from big name engine builders. This made sense due to the fact we were using their knowledge and experience just like the customer was doing with us on building their. car.
Something simple like a 350 in stock crate form sounds like blasphemy in my opinion.
You don’t need exotic machine work. GM doesn’t use any for the crate engine
You got a good running engine with low oil pressure. That’s the perfect rebuild candidate. Why wait until a rod starts making noise?
Never rebuilt an engine? This is the easiest one to build. Is it cheaper than a long block assembly? Maybe not, but how much is knowledge worth?
Warrantee? You don’t need one if it’s rebuilt correctly.
We built my 350 with high school kids.
Yep, assembled by 15-18 year olds that have never built one (under guidance of our automotive instructor) Almost 30k so far and no issues. The crate engine warrantee would just about now be gone. Guess I saved some money by trusting myself (and a few kids) and not gambling warrantee money on someone else’s work.
Luckily I have a local machine shop that I trust. Nothing fancy, just one employee in a tiny store front shop with a few old machines.
But the cool thing about crate engines is the left over engine ends up with folks like me. My 350 was a freebie due to the owner changing it out. It’s only issue was a previous owner stuck a crazy 600+ lift cam in a stock engine. Bent some pushrods and started punching rocker studs up. Improper rocker adjustment finally killed the cam. So an orphaned .060 350 ended up at home. Most folks said it was junk. Well I guess it was. Someone asked why use an engine that’s on its last go around? I said why not. It’s last time might as well be mine.

 

All the shops I used around here are gone/closed.

 

Because we'd rather be doing something else with the time it takes to disassemble a core engine, drive it to the machine shop, order the necessary parts, drive back to the machine shop, then assemble the engine.... We could be doing something like installing a 4 link or chassis stub, molding headlights, customizing quarters, etc.... instead of building the same engine we could have simply bought new and had delivered for practically the same price. It takes long enough to build a car. The savings of time is worth the couple hundred bucks savings.

Again, IMHO this discussion applies only to the SBC, where the price of the crate engine has come down to the point that it's a wash price-wise of building it yourself. The same cannot be said for virtually any other platform, including the SBF.

 

All that’s part of the fun.
Plus keeping the machine shop guy happy. He is more likely to help me on something more complicated when I send him easy stuff.

 

The assembled $1500 350. (I rounded up)
The 1100-1200 short block plus the pull a part idlebrick intake and jet carb. The rebuilt $15 carb, the freebie alternator +$25 rebuild kit, the Craig’s list $40 headers, the $75 Mallory unit (new in the box) and freebie valve covers both items from guys doing LS swaps. The autozone fuel and water pumps.
The alt and PS brackets are the only luxury items at $90
The orange paint was free mismatched paint from the paint store.
The air cleaner is the original one cleaned up with holes added.

 

I’ve been blessed
My guy will knock my stuff out quick. But you’ve got to tell him exactly how you need it.
He’s got a few speeds at which he turns stuff around.
“When you can get to it” and that’s basically storage.
“I need it for next week” and he calls Monday.
“My shop is jammed up and the guy is walking till I get it back” and it comes back very very quickly.
“It got to be on the track racing Saturday” and you’ll get it Thursday.
So many times I’ve gotten things back the next morning when I dropped them off at 3:00 the prior afternoon.

Bigger jobs take longer of course, but most of the stuff needed isn’t usually big especially if you can break it down for him.

 

Depends on condition of existing engine. Depends if you have tools and experience to assemble yourself. If you need pistons and boring, price goes up.

Same with scope creep on parts selection for a non-race engine - Do you actually need forged pistons to drive around?

If the parts measure within tolerance, file to fit rings and a GOOD hone job from the machine shop, not a dingleball on a drill, may be all you need. Crank, polish vs turn, same deal.

 

Again, I'll say Blueprint did a nice job on my 347. I've seen others that claim more power, for more money. But mine has plenty enough to override the traction ability of my tires. A good warranty. And you can directly call them for any questions. I asked about swapping cams, they said sure, doesn't void their warranty, but they wouldn't cover the cam anymore. About as simple as you can get.
And if you buy directly from them VS speedway or jegs or the like, you'll even save a few hundred bucks

 

Nobody needs forged pistons to go for ice cream.

 

That is actually part of the speed equation, "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

There was mention of Mexican motors here. Knowing that the majority of the people reading this have no real Mexico experience let me try ands paint a picture for you. Mexico is not a throw away country, literally everything gets rebuilt until rebuilding it is no longer possible. Example you loose the power brake booster on your old hooptie, you replace it. In Mexico you loose a power brake booster you take it off rebuild it and put it back on. Now apply this to literally every part of the vehicle.

At the place where engines are rebuilt there are a thousand people who want every job in the plant. This is probably literally a low number. Ya know what happens if you screw up? Ya don't get a ding, or a Union Rep, you get a pink slip ands someone else takes your place.

I have put many Mexican motors in cars in the last 30 or so years. Never had a major problem with one.

OK back to the original question, you can spend a ton on a crate motor or get one cheap. I have not run one but I have heard good words about Blue Print Motors.

You can do the same with an overhaul, you can spend a ton or go cheap. I spent about 700 screwing short block in the Timex motor together in '97. Then dropped another 1200 on heads. I shopped my parts and services and kept it cheap as I could. But I have done a cheapo overhaul or too as well.

You can spend too much either way if you want to.

 

Talk to Sun Valley Auto Parts on Vineland in Sun Valley, they have a web site with typical prices for rebuilds. Prices.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/valley-auto-parts-and-engines-sun-valley

 

Dangle ball hone ,,,
There’s a lot to think about with those and you Gotta have your end goal in mind when you decide if you’re going to use a Dingleberry Hone or a 3 stone.

someplace in here you need to add all the thoughts about using torque plates. It matters.

The dingleberry hone will produce a fresh cross hatch surface on any cylinder wall variance or existing wear. The three stone will/must remove cylinder wall material from the high spots to pull this off. In some instances it can actually dig low spots deeper. It could easily make the holes too big causing scope creep into bore and next size up pistons.

Incidentally not ever one time not once have I had the bores checked and measured by any machine shop where they first installed torque plates then measured. Every single time they find some variance.
The point I’m making is that torque plates are supposed to stress the block first THEN the holes are honed to perfection. Removing the torque plates allows the stress and and distortion to have free reign and once the heads go on the block is stressed and the bores return to perfection.

 

New suggestion: Buy a GM crate engine and swap it out for the existing engine and enjoy driving the car.

Take the engine you removed and put it on a stand in your garage and buy a book like this as a guide on how to proceed with rebuilding the engine. Watch some Utube videos. Talk to other rodders near you and see if anyone offers some help. Just take your time and work thru rebuilding the engine with no timetable to pressure you...and keep enjoying driving during the meantime. When done, you have a good engine for another project or swap it out for your crate engine and put the crate engine on the stand and save it or sell it. The point is that you can work your way thru building without the frustration of pressure to get it done. You learn a lot along the way and there are always a million different suggestions available on the HAMB if you need help.

There is a lot to be said for the feeling you get when you first fire an engine YOU built !
But it can be a good feeling or a bad feeling.............

 

One other thing to consider here. GM will only give you the 3/36 warranty IF you install the 350 crate engine in a vehicle that had a 350 by the VIN number. If your vehicle was not factory equipped with a 350, you get 12/12,000 mile warranty. When I bought my 10067353 engine, my ElCamino had a 3.8 V6 and they ask for the VIN.


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I've read too many rebuild horror stories on this site. Its a no brainer. Crate is the way to go. I wish I had $5.00 for every crate motor powering rods out there.

 

The actual physical act of assembling an engine isn't particularly mentally taxing , knowing what feels right and what to pay particular attention to takes experience , either your own or someone else's , if your lacking that , then the horror stories will normally be your result .....

 

I just finished doing a 283 chevy. done with all new parts. Steel crank and all ARP. stuff. Went to about $4000 plus I did assembly. Could have had a crate a lot cheaper but I wanted a 283. So I guess. what ever turns your crank.

 

Good morning and thanks for all of the replies and experiences.

I spent some time pricing things out and, adjusting for time/effort have decided that for where I am at right now a new crate engine from GM is the right choice.

I'll likely keep the current engine and go through it as a learning experience, itching to do the work but will likely have to wait until I get the replacement engine in.

Thank you all again - be well and stay healthy.

 

Glad you made a decision and hope it all works out for you. Please let us know how it worked out and what the inside of the old engine looks like if you get it apart.


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And this pic makes me cringe every time it comes up. Tommy I hope it’s not one of yours.


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Thanks @SEAAIRE354 , you and the people where were a big help.

Might be a month or two but will let you know how it worked out and what the current engine looks like.

 

I see no one has mentioned to old target master 350s from the???? Late '80s or early '90s...... Those were real garbage!....

 

Oh no,,,,not mine Seaair ,

One thing about it,,,,,it was a catastrophic failure,,,must have been using a lot of boost or nitrous,,,,,always hurts me looking at it .
At least it looked like it had some thick cylinder walls there .
It might be hydraulic fail,,,,a lot of force to blow that apart .

Tommy

 

I have never seen a Chevrolet manufactured block that looks like that Obviously a race block. That's racing !

 

That's cause it's not. Wrong head bolt pattern, motor mount bosses, and the big lump sticking up on the back. Mopar?

 

I agree with X-cpe, that’s a Mopar block. The motor mount bosses give it away.


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