I’m not sure if this is too new for this board, if so, I apologize and would you be able to redirect me? I’m having some trouble with a ford 200 motor. Back story, motor had a burnt valve and a broken(top chipped) piston. Changed valves and pistons. New bearing on the rods and mains. All back together, Oil pressure around 40 at idle. But it’s making a heck of a racket. It sounds like a chattering valve train, but I’m not 100%, the screwdriver or stethoscope trick doesn’t work well, it seems to resonate through the head and block, making it hard to determine. Machine shop did a couple valve guides and cleaned up the seats, and pressed on the pistons to the rods for me. However I noticed in my “motor service manual” that the rods are backwards of what it calls for. The “squirter” hole on the rod is pointing towards the drivers side, while the manual says it should be towards the passenger side, to the thrust side of the cylinder. I asked the machine shop about this, and they said it shouldn’t matter, and that’s how they were when I brought them. I unfortunately didn’t pay enough attention to squirter hole position when removing the pistons, I mainly knew the notch in the pistons had to be facing forward, which they were, and are now. So does the rod placement (squirter hole) matter? Thank you for any input! Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Thank you! Now, could this also be the reason the rings aren’t seating? Getting some blow by. I know it takes some time. And I haven’t run it much cause the chattering scares me. Compression is a little low unless I squirt some oil onto the top of the cylinder. But since the rods are most likely backwards, would this cause the cylinders to get a lack of oil? Which is causing a piston slap situation? Plus not allowing the rings to seat due to lack of oil? Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
if it is making noise, and you know the rods are backwards..... don't run it anymore, take it apart and put it together right.
Hope you get it fixed. One suggestion I have that is SO SIMPLE but no one seems to know is.. Stick a piece of 3' or so long 1/8" vacuum tube in your ear and run other end around running engine to find noises. No kidding it works great! Mush better than those stethescopes.
Thank you both! Hopefully I can talk them into switching them around free of charge. Again, I can’t say 100% if they were originally backwards, and they are telling me the truth and that’s how they were when I took them down to get pressed on. But I don’t remember it chattering before. It just ran horrible, cause the broke piston in cylinder 1 and burnt valve in cylinder 2..... Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The squirter hole on the wrong side isn’t causing the noise, it’ll likely run forever like that, lots don’t even have them, but I agree it should be put together correctly. If it’s rattling something is wrong, was anything measured when you had it apart? Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Measured new pistons and bearings for sure, as well as the new valves for height. And these were really the only things replaced. The push rods and lifters were kept in order of where they came out of. Cam never came out of block. Everything torqued to spec according to the manual. These rockers are not adjustable, they are on the whole assembly. I’ve inspected the lifters and rods to make sure they are not bent or collapsed, all appears ok. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
does not matter if the rods were backwards when you brought them in, if you paid for them to do the work, the work should be done correctly. It's going to be hard for us to say what the noise is, and it does not really matter, you know the rods are backwards. You know what must be done, take it apart and put it back right, my bet is you will find what the noise is if you look at every part very closely. hopefully it won't be too bad.
Maybe fill us in on the piston to wall clearance and the bearing clearance, including taper and out of round. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
Piston clearance is at .0023, which is within the manual, .002-.0027. Bearing is .0018 which seems on the high side of the clearance, manual calls for .0006-.0022 I didn’t measure these, what the shop gave me. I will ask about taper and out of round. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
You did put the caps on the same way as the rods? Does your 200 have adjustable or nonadjustable rockers? Try pulling plug wires to see if there is a change when the cylinder is dead if no change pull valve cover and check lash.
Not sure about i6 engines but other Ford v8's have a chamfer on the inside of the rod that faces to the inside or cheek of the crankshaft. If their installed backwards you wouldn't have enough clearance between them. Like I said 6 cylinders could be different though.
I agree that "clatter" and "clicking" are usually valve train and not bottom end. You said the machine shop "did a couple of valve seats". Did you mean that they machined and installed a replaceable seat? If so perhaps it has dropped a seat out if their piston hanging work is an indication of their skill? Or with your non-adjustable valve train perhaps the installed valve heights are not correct?
This is a very good thought, didn’t occur to me...doh! I built a 200 six about 25 years ago....don’t remember now but I don’t think they share crank journals, if that’s the case they will be chamfered on both sides. Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
They do not share crank journals, and I didn’t notice a difference on sides of rods. But I’ll double check. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I did line the caps up correctly, they have the cylinder number on both the rod and cap, and they are aligned. Non adjustable rockers, I have read about shorter or longer pushrods. But to measure it, you need to collapse the lifter plunger the manual says, and I don’t have the special tool required. No change pulling plug wires Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I’m sorry, they replaced some valve guides and cleaned up the seats. Didn’t replace seats, at least that I’m aware up. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
If you had the rods backwards, if there was a chamfer that is, the engine would be hard to turn and the connecting rods would probably be blue from rubbing.
I don’t have a view of the rods yet, but engine is easy to turn, I can use a wrench on the balancer and it spins freely all the way around Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
You have an engine with only one rod on the journal that would only to an engine that had 2 two rods on the same journal like a V8. I would pull the valve cover and check the valve lash.
If you're having trouble isolating the noise to top or bottom end, take off the valve cover and run at idle. If it still isn't obvious, touch each rocker arm on either end. You can feel a noisy one. And pay attention to the noise, is it once per revolution, intermittent, etc. that helps to logically eliminate things. as far a special tools to collapse the lifters: it can be done with creative use of a pry bar.
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