Technical 58 Impala Starter Wiring Question

I’m in the process of replacing the wiring harness in my ‘58 Impala with an OEM type replacement harness. It’s built to original specifications.
I installed the dash harness, engine harness and starter harness. As a precaution I touched the positive cable to the battery to check for a draw, huge spark. Start checking the wiring. Unplug the starter harness and no draw/spark when connecting battery. Check the plug of the starter harness for continuity to ground. Turns out the solenoid wire shows continuity to ground. Put the car back up on the lift, remove the solenoid wire, check continuity to ground on the solenoid post and it does have it. Is the solenoid fried? The original harness I removed had had numerous visits from Bubba in the past. If I remember correctly, when I removed the harness there was no wire to the solenoid post, just the main battery post and the R post....... which seemed strange.
Any advice would be appreciated. Would be great to get this running again before it snows.........



Thanks in advance.

Allan

 

Allan, from your picture, does the wire from the "R" terminal go up to the distributor side or your
ceramic resistor? Or is it your starter wire coming from your ignition switch? If it is,
that could be the problem. Bob

 

The wire on the R post feeds to the coil/ballast resistor. The wire on the Solenoid post feeds to the ignition switch.
Just doesn’t make sense the solenoid post has continuity with ground.

 

Not at all, unless it's messed up inside. There is only a copper washer and a springy thing in there, which would be pretty hard to ground out. The other thing I noticed, and it may be from the angle of the picture, it that on your battery terminal, it almost looks like the end of the cable or the other wire is pretty close, perhaps touching, the screw for the cover?

 

Read your original post again, and it appears that you are only having the issue with the solenoid post. I would take a jumper wire from the battery post and touch it to the solenoid post. If it shorts out then it would be a bad solenoid. If it is good, it will crank the motor over. If it does nothing, I usually tap the solenoid with a small hammer and try it again.

 

I’ll try that.
Thanks.

 

Jumped battery to solenoid posts and the car turns over fine. Still showing continuity between the solenoid post and ch***is ground (including between the solenoid post and starter housing). That does not seem right...... and I really don’t want to hook up a battery and burn up a brand new wiring harness.

 

Are those the only wires you have going to the starter? If so try putting the small wire on the S terminal not the R the wire to the S terminal should only see 12v when the switch in the start position the R wire would have voltage in the on position

 

The R terminal is the + end of the electro magnetic " solenoid" coil , it should read ground , otherwise the coil would not operate .
The bat. cable is not " clocked" correctly on the solenoid stud , that " ridge" around the lower part of the stud should be exposed , shielding and locating the cable terminal & the cable terminal should be on the stud first , under auxiliary wire terminals ...

 

The solenoid is a magnetic switch the terminal is hooked to a coil of wire to create a magnetic field the other end of the wire is hooked to ground so of course you will see continuity at the terminal.
Sounds to me like you have a active connection from the battery(when hooked up) to the S terminal at the starter.
With the S terminal wire unhooked hook up the battery and check it with a test light to see if it there is current there.
There should not be current at the wire unless the switch is turned to the start position.

 

Will fix the Battery connection. Did you mean S terminal, not R?

 

Sorry , dyslexia strikes again ! S....

 

lol. Thanks.
Removed the battery cable. Actually had it on the stud first but the issue was the tab on the cable end is too long so that’s why the cable end was ****ed. I ***ume I should just bend the tab so the cable end fully seats?

 

There should be a slot the tab will seat in , to keep the terminal from rotating .

 

At 12 O'Clock , I had to go look at a starter ...

 

OK, I’m more or less back to where I started except...
- we know the solenoid and starter works
- we’ve determined there should be continuity to ground on the solenoid post
- the wiring is now installed correctly so there is no concern with accidental conductivity.
- the car is back on the ground.........

I still have a big draw when I touch the positive cable to the battery.
The other possibility that popped into my mind is I’ve potentially got an issue with the voltage regulator I installed when I got rid of the single wire alternator and went back to a generator. One thing I haven’t done yet is run the power wire from the battery to the battery connection on the voltage regulator. Would that have anything to do with this issue? Or is maybe the voltage regulator bad? I pulled the cover off and the battery contact set is open, the field and generator contacts are closed with no power.

..... maybe I should cut some holes in the floor boards and Flintstone it.

 

2old2 fast..... thanks for all your advice.
Here’s the voltage regulator contacts with no battery.

 

Do you have any wires that are NOT connected to anything that could be touching the body or frame thus grounding?

 

You probably should move the S wire farther away from the battery wire vibration will cause it to rub through.

The load is only there when the S terminal wire is attached?

 

Just the ballast resistor wiring and coil wire that I’ve wrapped in tape for now. There are also no fuses installed in the fuse panel.

The load is there only when I have the starter harness plugged into the dash harness which is why I was wondering if I have an issue with the voltage regulator?

 

Disconnect the voltage regulator and tape the wires, if that doesn't change anything disconnect something else until you find the cause.

 

Which solenoid post is going to ground the S terminal should be the only one to ground if you don't count the starter lug. The R terminal will have continuity with the battery cable post only when the solenoid is engauged. With the wire off the R terminal should not show ground

 

Did you check the S wire for current with it disconnected from the starter?
Almost sounds like its trying to engage the starter as soon as you hook up the battery.

 

I'm trying not to sound like a jerk , but you don't seem to have a clue in a carload about electricity! 2nd- I'm not a terribly patient person & simply don't have it in me to try & walk you through this with your existing knowledge .IMO you need someone who knows there with you to solve your problems or you need to learn some electrical 101's . I'm sorry , maybe someone else can help ...

 

You don't understand how a solenoid works , you don't understand how a voltage regulator works , you don't seem to have a comprehension of switches , but you're capable of wiring a car ?? , Oooook ...

 

So is the spark gone when you disconnect the 12 volt feed wire from the battery terminal on the starter or the R or S terminal?

 

Well I won't have to worry about not helping..

 

When I unplug the harness for the starter (3 wires, black to battery cable post, purple to solenoid post, and green to “R” post) I have no spark. When plugged into the dash harness I get a spark..... and a heavy one. Unfortunately I’ve rolled the Impala off the lift (and for the second time, my son would not be happy if I asked him to help me push it onto the lift a 3rd tome) so it is not easy to get at the solenoid to disconnect wires individually. I can use a jumper at the plug and check each wire. I just need to get back out and start tracing things. Just thought the question might initiate an easy solution.
Thanks for the comment.

 

Sounds like your 12 volt feed wire is energizing something in the circuit. Try and jump that wire at your harness connection to see if it sparks.

 

The hardest thing to do on this board is to try to help someone who is so clueless that they can't be helped. I'm thinking that 2old2fast is correct in his ***umption.

The other thing is sorting though incorrect info put out by those who think that they know how something works but actually don't.

I couldn't find the old delco solenoid that I had had apart out on my bench so no photo.
Basics of the solenoid.
The Battery post and connect to starter posts have contact areas on the back side that the disk on the plunger contacts when the S post has power to it and the wire from it puts power to the magnetic coil pushing the plunger with the copper (now coated) disk on it to make contact with the batt and field contacts.
The R post has a little spring looking tab on it that the disk comes in contact with to send power to the coil byp***ing the resistor when you crank the engine. There should never be power or continuity though it if the solenoid isn't engaged.
At the same time the solenoid is also pushing the plunger to engage the starter drive.

Yes there will be continuity through the S post to ground all the time but it takes 12 V to energize the magnetic coil. It won't work otherwise.

A new external regulator that has never been operated shouldn't be an issue unless it was ***embled or adjusted wrong from the start. It looks like all the contacts are open so that doesn't appear to be an issue. Wiring connected to it wrong may be an issue.
I am ***uming that you are using a generator and that it has been checked out and is good and not trying to run an alternator with the external regulator for a 58 Chev that came with a generator because alternators didn't exist in American cars then.

I'd go back over each and every wire with schematic/diagram in hand making sure that each one I had connected was connected correctly. A wire that you thought was a ground wire may not be a ground wire or may have moved a bit when you tightened a nut or screw down an the terminal is making contact with ground.