So I picked up this really cool engine for another project I've been dying to do which is currently stalled due to some major missing components (I was actually offered the parts on here... but 3 yrs. later we're still playing footsy) so in the meantime I've decide to put it into a Model A roadster beater I'm piecing together out of junk as a Covid p***time.... what I believe it to be is a 1932 Buick "Fireball" straight 8 it is a long block still turns over and reportedly was running until a timing gear cracked and chipped a few teeth...it has been garage kept since being pulled...but it's stripped pretty clean. In the accompanying pics you will note the large timing cover and that the distributor, generator, water pump and bunch of other crazy looking **** all run down the right side of the engine I might be able to source some of that stuff but I don't really want to...besides the fact that it won't likely fit into a Model A frame it's not in the Hot Rod spirit. I was wondering what lightweight practical way would a hot rodder in the '50's do away with these monstrocities? perhaps an early Ford V8 dizzy? seems perfect...machine it into that timing cover then lop the rest off? any thoughts or ideas are appreciated! @Hnstray ? - Also any tips or suggestions for small sidedraft carbs that would have been fairly common in the '50's? I'm thinking of running sidedrafts because the engine is so tall...
Been a fan of Buicks since I was little, the chances of finding all the missing bits might be slim and the best way to get it running properly without a lot of hokey engineering is the stock set up. Swap it for a later and complete 8 with insert bearings.
Lots of racing type applications of distributors on T, A, and B block Fords that mounted off the backside of the crank and cam gear covers. They look very similar to the original Buick, minus all the generator and pump stuff. I actually think they look pretty cool. Some point straight back, not upright at a 90 like your Buick.
Rochester/carter (I always get those confused sorry) side drafts like used on the '54 Corvette would have been easy to come by for side draft carbs. I think that the jaguar cars were using SUs in the '50s so that may have been an option for side drafts. A vertex mag could be converted to belt drive, I have seen belt driven magnetos on some old race cars from the '50s and '60s. I guess most people believe that you cannot run a mag on the street, it echoes when they talk, I have logged 100s of thousands of miles on vertex mags. Just some thoughts.
I know they're cool eh? The exhaust note on just a stock eng. with pea shooter exhaust is awesome...so how about 8 straight pipes running into a old torque tube?? I do have that option my buddy has a couple later ones but I'm not stoked on adding an extra 300 pounds to the project...(cast iron intake/exhaust manifolds, weak sparking 6 v dizzy, gen the size of a house etc. etc.) a big part of the whole idea is to save this cool old '32 Fireball ....yeah sure I'd get rid of the babbit bearings add more cubes etc. but that's not the point...I probably can find the gen/dist etc. but I don't really want that stuff and I think they will be competing wth my frame rails for space
those are 4 bangers but yeah that's the idea...I know they used to adapt Volkswagon dist.s to model T engines...do any brands/manufacturers spring to mind?
Cool I'll check into that! the intake bore is pretty small so they have to be fairly small especially sharing space with 8 exhaust pipes...what about motorcycle carbs of that era? Vertex! yeah I've heard of them don't know a lot about them but that could be a solution right there
Does anyone know what that coffee can lookin' thing behind the water pump is? looks su****iously like an oil pump...I hope not...Ray? @Hnstray Thanks guys keep 'em coming....any vintage pics of cool engine/dist. or vertex setups would be helpful too!
Uh...Ohhh.....you calling me? yeah, that coffee can thingy.......says ‘oil filter’ on the side of it.....I am willing to take the decal’s word for it! Poster #9, above, called it correctly first so any rewards forthcoming should be sent to him. Ray
I used 2000cc Pinto distributors. Same Bosch dist. But without the late lobe on one cylinder and with a flat bottom housing. More easily adapted. gear drive between dists. By phasing them at 45 degrees it would be a good twin coil 8 cylinder ignition.
Difference between Pinto and VW dist. Same cap. Rotor and all. Pinto is flat on bottom of case. Needless to say, both of these distributors have been modified to work in other non VW or Pinto engines.
Thanks guys...saw that.... I was more wondering why the "filter housing" seems to have a huge driveshaft running into it? just picking your brains you seem fairly knowledgeable about Buicks and have one as your avatar
Putting all seriousness aside, expanding the photo seems to indicate the driveshaft only goes as far as the water pump, The back of the water pump appears to have a bolted on end plate and is not in anyway attached to the oil filter. I think the oil filter is just occupying the limited remaining real estate on that side of the engine. And, I think, an oil gallery runs along that side of the block as well and would be a good place to plumb the filter. Thank you for considering my ‘brains’ worthy of picking....... Ray
I think you've got a little 'splaining to do here. You're saying the VW ditributor didn't have 90* lobe spacing all the way around? I guess I'm out of loop on this info, but then I'm fairly limited in my knowledge of Pinto and VW ignition systems. This kind of stuff makes my brain hurt.
Because the cylinder behind the oil cooler runs hotter than the others. And tended to exhaust valve separation, the point cam is ground to fire that cylinder later than the other 3.
Harley used an M74b they were a droolin *******, they had adjustable jets, but that would do you little good on a car, you reached under your leg and adjusted them going down the road, which happened quite frequently. The limeys used Amal Monoblocs, they were designed for very small displacement about 250-500 CCs. Had no choke on the bike it was no biggy they had a tickler, basically you pushed it and it held the float down and let raw fuel flow into the port. Those would have been the better bike carbs if the era, and the most available. Last Linkert I bought was in the '70s it was a 5 dollar carb, no one wanted one.
Sidedraft carburetors "readily available in the 1950's" do not really fit that description today. (1) Carter type YH would then have been the most common, as they were used on the 1953-54 Corvette, a number of Nash products, and some mid-50's marine applications. Later (1960's) use included more marine and turbo Corvair (2) Zenith type 80 and 82 from the late 1930's. Lots of new old stock available CHEAP in the early 1950's, because of which, popular with the Nicson 3-carb intake for inline Chevy 6. As they had limited original equipment application, once the new old stock dried up, so did the entire supply. Less readily available in the 50's, but still obtainable from large salvage yards then, and fairly rare today: (1) Zenith type 11 sidedraft 2-barrel used on some G.M.C. trucks, and Continental engines. (2) Zenith br*** carbs type HP from the 1920's (3) Stromberg br*** carbs from the 1920's (several different models, the most common being the OF) Even more scarce in the 50's, and "gold-plated" today: (1) Riley sidedraft made in both 1 1/2 and 2 inch configurations. Common in the 1950's and fairly common today (if you can call these carburetors, I would rather refer to them as high-end mixing valves, but not really a carburetor). (1) Ford/Holley type NH, Holley type G, and Kingston type L and L-4 for the model T Ford Have not included the Scheblers or the revised Schebler known as Linkart used on motorcycles, or non-USA sidedrafts. There are a few more early sidedrafts of varying degrees of quality and availability; and the lone Rochester type R/RC from the early 1960's. Jon.
Jon, When you say 82, are you talking about the Zenith 82BV10 Carbs, like Eddie Miller used (I have one- trying to find it's mate)
Mac - yes, and they are quite scarce. Zenith coded their model types, the 82 is the style, the BV10 may be decoded: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Zenithcodebreakdown.htm The 82 series was original only on an obscure I.H.C. truck from the late 1930's, and a few Schramm air compressors. As such, there was almost zero demand for new replacement carburetors, and dealers wanted to purge their inventory in the late 1940's, early 1950's, so the new old stock carbs were CHEAP. But once the new old stock dried up, that was it. VERY difficult carb to find today. And when doing the aftermarket multiple carb thingy, one should use matching tag numbers. Difficult enough to find one, let alone matching ones. I have more Duesenberg carbs and V-16 Cadillac carbs than I do the type 80 or 82 Zeniths. Jon.
Wowsers! Thanks for the explanation. It would have taken me quite a while to figure that out as the reason for delaying the timing on that one cylinder.
How about a crank trigger ignition? Adapt a disc onto the front of the crankshaft. Hide 4 coils behind the firewall or in a box. Instead of side draft carbs use a couple of EFI throttle bodies and make it fuel injection. See Megasquirt for the control system for ignition and EFI.
SUs weren't exactly hot rod carbs in the 50s (or any other time) and many Americans hate them, but if you understand how they work and set them up correctly they work great. If you can find someone who knows them well this could be a viable choice.
The SU (Skinners Union) carbs were readily available in the 1950's, but ONLY the small versions. The HD-8 and H-8 were pretty much only used on Jaguar beginning in the mid-1950's, and the HD-6 same thing. There were a few other makes (Daimler comes to mind), but I never saw any of them. The H-6 was used on Triumphs and the large Healeys beginning about 1956 or so. Availability of these was dependent on location. I never saw an HD-8 until I visited Hershey the first time in 1973, and I cleaned an import car salvage yard in the St. Louis area of SU's in the mid-1960's (there used to be a race track outside of St. Louis used by SCCA). In this area in the 1950's, would have been virtually impossible to match 4 of these. Today, with Ebay, don't know. Possibly. Jon.
I think those updraft carbs look really neat, why don't you go with this approach, instead of side draft? As for the other stuff...you still need a generator/alternator, and a water pump, and a distributor of some type...where do you plan to put them, if not on the side, where there is a drive available?
Oh, nothing about this project is easy! So that shouldn't dissuade him. I really just wanted to make the point that he showed a picture of updraft carbs, then started talking about side drafts, and no one mentioned the discrepancy
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