Projects Barn find - 1964 Pontiac Catalina 421 early custom car

I miss having a Pontiac. I always wanted a 65 2+2 Catalina hard top..

 

Can I use a 1964 Grand Prix frame to replace the frame in a 1963 Catalina Convertible?

 

I'm not the expert on frames, but I think the convertible frames were boxed. I have a feeling there were slight differences in the frame sizes depending if they were 2 door, 4 door or convertible...so be to talk to someone like Les Kasten at Pontiac Paradise in MN as he would know.

 

I think they are the same but a shop manual will tell you, for sure.

 

Very nice console. Not sure if anyone said its from 1966 Impala. Woodgrain inserts are for Caprice.

 

I really love to see a car like this get restored in this way, I wish all of the curators/owners of period customs treated them with this much love and respect. Especially this car, which is valuable in it's factory stock form and not super well known, it easily could have been restored to factory spec and lost forever. You're a great caretaker of this car.

 

WoW it’s a crazy survivor
I love the paint style
Happy to see it will not be forgotten

 

Thanks for the comment...I´m trying to save this style of automotive history as I think it only had a small window between the hot rods and custom cars to the fully blown customs car and muscle cars of the 70´s and 80´s.

 

Thanks for the comment, yes it was a tough decision not to go back to stock as it´s a rare car being a 4 speed manual 421. But I think needed someone like me that wanted to save this type of American auto history...I´m not doing a tribute car or mimicking the period custom mods...I´m working with the original owner and taking it back to that look it first had in 1967/68. The hood is the only part of the car that still have the original paint, so that will be saved as is and I have a replacement hood for the car. Where possible I am restoring everything on the car back to how it used to look...talking with Bob and things he might have done like the triple carb set up, or not recreating his attempt at some of the extra pin striping that was a little crude compared to the original (he won´t mind me saying this as he has me not to copy his attempts). It will be a driver not a trailer queen, but I´m hoping to be able to show it off or have it displayed somewhere where other people can enjoy it too.

 

Yes it will fit and the Grand Prix frame is usually boxed for better performance.. I think all the AO Smith frames were boxed and used in the performance models.

 

It's now early February and my first update on the Catalina this year. We are just about to start fitting the rear axle, brakes, brake lines etc to the frame. Picking up the rebuilt motor and transmission later this week and hope to have it back on a set of wheels to roll around the shop soon. Still a long way to go...but we will get there.

 

Super awesome!!

 

Hey now is a good time to reinforce the frame where the Idler arm attaches to the frame. These have been known to completely brake off.. I'd put a nice piece of plate there.. Your steering would be mush smoother with less bump steer..

You could also move the upper control arm attachment brackets back an inch or so to give more positive caster..

 

We are back on the Pontiac this month. I've just been buying front & rear brakes, brake line, fluids etc. Also the engine and transmission are now reunited with the car again. I've added a photo of before and after of the engine and transmission, just to remind myself where we were...and to help anyone in the same position I was in a couple of years ago...you will get there with the rebuilt or restoration.

We couldn't find the transmission crossmember brace, so I bought a second hand one that was advertised as being in mint condition and being powder coated...plug and play I thought. I was wrong, as you can see it looks like it has just come off a donor car, covered in grease and dirt...it will clean up and will do, but if this person had said they had a good solid crossmember that needed a good clean, I would have been fine with that...but when you think it will just bolt in, it's disappointing not to be told the true condition.

Anyway we are making good progress getting the frame ready and then hopefully fit the body back on the frame before any paint, just to make sure it's all okay.

Hope to have more photos and progress on the car soon...

 

Looks like a 62 Catalina/Grand Prix.

 

As for paint, I've been toying with the idea of painting it the original Marimba red and assemble the car with the intention of running the car around for say 6 or 12 months with the idea of getting rid of any restoration bugs before stripping the trim off the car again and then painting it lavender and the replicating the Jon Kosmoski House of Kolor paint scheme. Or should I just bite the bullet and do it lavender first and the custom paint. I decision I will have to make sooner rather than later.

Here are the 3 stages of paint, the original Marimba Red, then it was just lavender and finally with the additions of the blue lace work.

 

Nice to see it coming along, reminds me a bit of this one sitting locally.


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Well, so far as painting, I guess it comes down to how much money ant time do you have? Paint is expensive, of course. That’s a big expense to paint it Marimba then later paint it the way you intend with the lavender and lace paint job. Then there is the question of taking apart a finished, painted car to repaint it just a few months later as would be your plan. Real hard to take apart a nice car that’s fresh, running, driving and you are out having fun with and have it be back apart for however long. When it was painted lavender, did the paint the jambs as well or just the outside? If just the outside, do you plan on doing it the same way or lavender everywhere? That might play into my decision a bit as well.

Looking real good and I’m excited to see the progress!

 

There's no reason to paint it red first, go straight to the lavender. You're just compromising durability to go with the red first plus the more color comes the less truer the bodywork.

 

That looks to be an interesting colour scheme...do you have any other photos. What is the history on the car?

Thanks, yes the door jams were painted lavender as well, but in the trunk you could still see areas that had been missed. If you look at the early posts, you will see many photos of the car taken back in the late 60´s and others before we took the car apart.

 

I know I should just go to lavender...but maybe part of me wanted to have the red under neath just like the original, but your right, the less paint layer the better...after all the work that´s been done it would be good to see the pure shape of the car.

 

Speaking from experience, I would just go ahead with the lavender and final paint scheme while it is apart then put it together and drive it. Once it is prepped for paint, there isn't that much difference between painting it just the lavender vs. just finishing it. Adding the rest of the paint scheme later could be done too, but I would want to re-clear all the areas which would mean removing all the trim, etc. again. What's another 24 hours or so of work while it is already apart to just get it to the final stage?

 

Don’t know anything about the car, just that it’s been sitting there just off a local community trail for several years unmoved. Looks too nice to be sitting outside like that.


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That´s a shame, mine sat for about 40 year, but luckily it was indoors and not outside in the elements.

 

Make sure you get the spider gears in perfect alignment with each other..

 

Frankly as far as suspensions and handling go, I'd like to have the 64 Chevrolet front suspension, steering linkage and steering box but would prefer the 64 Pontiac rear end suspension and control arms.. That would get you one real nice handling, riding and driving car.. That Chevrolet spindle with Howe .9 and .5 tall ball joints would really make this car one fast, tall ball joint I would have no problem showing off a 409 or 427 under the hood.. That 389 is no slouch by any long shot..

 

Mine is an original 421 car, as for the rear end that is all rebuilt as per it left the factory...this car is not going to be an everyday car. As I´m not doing the work (I live too far away plus the travel restrictions mean it´s impossible to get to the US). Anyway I trust Bob who is building the car to do the right thing.

 

Great documentation!
Hope Bob is still doing well.
The hole in the original gas tank might have been from Customs having a look inside when it got shipped overseas. How are you going to replicate the lace pattern?

 

Thanks for the comment, Bob is a doing as well as can be expected...I´ll leave him to make a comment on that. As for the hole in the gas tank, he said that due to a possible fork lift moving the car at some point. The car is still in the US and has not been shipped overseas, It´s still in the Minneapolis are and will be until the car is finished. I have a storage unit in CA, so I might keep it over there and do a few road trips or car shows with it

 

I was just saying. There is nothing wrong with the Chevrolet suspension. The steering linkage is in front of the front wheels (front steer). Chevrolet was far ahead of the game doing this in in 1958.. When you put the steering linkage behind the front wheels your steering under pressure, this makes the steering touchy. When you have the linkage in front of the front wheels you take away all that pressure and place it on the ball joints which are very strong.. If you look at any modern performance car you'll see the linkage or track in front of the wheels or in the middle which is best.. Rear steer does have it benefits. The car turns tighter and goes around turns with less input. Rear steering is oversteer while front steer in understeer...