Projects I'm 18 and building my first flathead 59AB+merc crank for my chopped 34 4 door sedan

I'll talk to my dad about it tonight I could probably make that work lol.

 

I'd pass on the pumps.. If they're off a 221, they have to be the early ('37-'48) pumps which are inherently inferior to the 8BA pumps (remember, this guy has a later Merc) and there is an extra hole that has to be plugged and they require an oil passage from the engine for lubrication. Unless of course, they are the real early pumps that bolt onto the heads (those were 221's too) in which case this is an absolute no go.

 

Well, the pumps came off a 221 Pilot engine made in the late 40's, I pulled pumps from a late 30's FH for the 221..

So what do you think the differences are?

Impellers looked to be the same to me at the time, visually without measuring

But, regardless if you order a water pump for a FH V8, do they specify for 221 v 239?

If so, what the heck is the difference?

BTW, these were the engines mount as well.

 

Well, the pumps will bolt on, and the impellers are about the same size. However, that is not the only difference. Here are the best pictures I can find in a hurry. Notice the gasket for the 8BA pumps :



See the extra water passage at the very top? Now look at the gasket for the earlier pumps; they are missing that water passage.



In addition, the earlier pumps have bushings that are lubricated by oil from the engine, while that later pumps have sealed bearings which are much better. The later blocks do not have the passage to supply oil to the early pumps.

Although they will bolt onto the engine (if you plug the extra passage in the block) and function, I don't believe it's a good idea to use them for several reasons, among them, a poorer impellor design (unless they have been modified with improved impellors) and the lubrication problem.

If you need water pumps with the engine mount, you can use '49-'53 truck pumps, or '49-'early '51 Mercury pumps with spacers. As to Pilot pumps, I am really not familiar with them, so they may be different, I don't think they are different, but really aren't relevant here for someone building an engine in California.

 

Thank you that is super useful information.

 

did you get the crank shaft twin belt pulley
the upper generator mount
and the fan and hub

plus have you got an 8ba half bell, starter plate and oil pan

 

If you need water pumps with the engine mount, you can use '49-'53 truck pumps, or '49-'early '51 Mercury pumps with spacers. As to Pilot pumps, I am really not familiar with them, so they may be different, I don't think they are different, but really aren't relevant here for someone building an engine in California.[/QUOTE]

FYI: Truck pumps are wide belt so you'll need a wide belt crank and generator pulley (or alternator)

 

@tubman great info, damn. I can’t give this stuff away!

 

Everybody would be better served if those pumps went on a proper early engine.

I'm surprised you haven't received a request or two already.

 

Ford Pilot - Wikipedia

 

I’ve had 3 folks “coming by” to pick things up from the pay it forward thread. I still have it all. Unloading the trailer today and going to load it for a scrap run.
Darned shame to toss this stuff, but have no recourse

 

It is. I had a o/p pick up a r/e for me so he could take the open drive off and send it to me. The o/p had it listed for several weeks.

 

The crank did not have a pulley and I have no bell housing or anything. I have the oil pan, fan, and generator though

 

Hey man,my name is Boden. I’m 15. I built a merc flatty just like yours. It’s in my 53 customline. I work at a machine shop in New York. It’s bored .040 and it’s got a old school dirt track cam, rare sharp bonneville heads, and a offy dual. Ported and relieved, adjustable Johnson’s. And it runs amazing. Here are a few pics. I got a set of high compression eab heads like stated earlier. If you’re interested then send me a pm. Got lots of parts for these motors so let me know. Happy to help any way I can.


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That's a good looking motor! Thank you for the offer I have a pair of Evan's heads that I picked up that have some damage from electrolysis that I'm going to eventually get repaired that I will probably run on it. I've been looking for an Evan's intake so it will match the heads. Once I get my motor completely apart I'm going to look into more parts for it so I'll keep you in mind.

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Sounds great! Don’t hesitate to ask anyone here any question you have. Everyone here started somewhere and there’s a good chance they had ur same exact question at one point. If we didn’t want to answer ur question we wouldn’t be here in the first place!


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I finally got some time to continue working on my flathead now that I've finished finals for this semester. I just got the water pumps and the timing cover off. The timing cover was really stuck and after finally getting it off I see why. The water jackets look pretty good from other guides and pictures I've been seeing.

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the bottom pic shows the dist. with its pilot shaft going into the pilot bush...
memory says that is '49 only...
yes it could have been changed...
but it looks as though that block has been together for a while...

 

From what I've been told it seems like it is a 49 merc and it's never been taken apart

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was told if you hang the forged crank on end and tap it with a hammer it should ring like a bell...
something about holes or lack of them in the counterbalance also screams stroker !

 

no disrespect to anyone, but the above mentioned search function doesn’t always bring the required results.
A better option is to do a google search and type in the word hamb first.

re; water pumps; tubman obviously knows his stuff, everything he said is correct.
- I also doubt whether Pilot motors had the sealed bearings in the water pumps, which is what is best, (the others had cinted bronze bushes needing constant oiling), but,
fwiw - according to a flathead guru here, the Pilot engines apparently came with factory cast headers, although I have never seen any.

 

Ok thanks for the info

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Good to see you Jesse and I hope you did great on your finals. That front cover looks pretty corroded inside along with the cam and crank timing gears. Have you got any of the pistons out yet? As corroded as the front cover is the pistons may come out in pieces. That will be OK if they do just be very careful to not break or crack any of the cylinder walls while getting them out. If you crack one it can still be sleeved but you do not need that expense. Get your Dad to guide you as he most likely will have some experience so use it. You can do this just take your time and don't rush it.

 

I haven't gotten any pistons out my dad and I have been talking about different ideas on how to remove the pistons with minimal stress on the block.

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From the look of the rust inside that engine, you have a challenge ahead of you. Flatheads that have been sitting for a long time are a challenge to take apart to begin with. Yours looks like water was able to flood the block. Take your time getting it apart and try not to get frustrated. Last flathead I took apart took me 3 days to get the valves out! Good luck.

 

Thank you for the tip patience definitely seems like the most important tool for taking this motor apart.

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Very definitely and good for you talking to your Dad and getting his advice. Ask here because there are alot of people here watching your progress. Give a couple of days in case some guys don't get on here all that often and they have knowledge.

 

Last flathead I took apart took 3 months to get the pistons out. I soaked them in an ATF, diesel, acetone mix, tapped on the piston tops every time I walked past it, set it on fire all for nuthin! After 3 months of frustration I knocked holes in the piston tops from underneath and carefully tapped the remainder of the pistons out. Done in an hour.
BTW, when I was 16 my dad and I built a 53 merc motor for my 50 ford. Your 34 is far cooler than my 14 year old 50 ford.

 

Your 50 ford is cool too I've always loved the lines on them.

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The exhaust was a bit more free-flowing by the looks of them. They came off in a few pieces tho. I think I sent them to someone in Canada who was going to attempt to get them welded together