Projects '54 Ford to a FE Swap

First let me say that I have joined the 52-59 Social Group but, I don't get much feed back on this swap. It doesn't seem very popular in this era but, I know it's been done in the past.

The basics:
'54 Mainline Tudor, 223 6, o/d.
Engine I'm going to install is a '58 Edsel (machined combustion chamber), .040 over and 428 crank (419 ci). It's being built now and should be ready by late Spring.
Trans is a C6, out of a 390 PU.
Rear end is a '57 with 2.74 gears.

Is there still anyone alive, that has done this swap (I'm 76). I know the 223, is a help, with it's longer engine compartment but, don't know how close the FE will come to the radiator. I don't know if the C6 will fit w/o mods or how it might fit to the rear mount.

I think I'll probably need heavier from springs but, where might I get them or does anyone know the diameter of the springs or what other car that I might find a stronger spring.

I don't want to use the log manifolds, any ideas for that? Any input from anyone that has done is swap, is appreciated.

 

I can't help you out being primarily a Chevrolet guy, but that sounds like an interesting swap. Hope it all works out for you. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Me and my brothers put a 430 Merc with a t85 in our 57 ford custom that had the 6 banger. Did not have to move the radiator. 352 will fit easy. 1957&1958 ford's use the same chassis

 

I put a 302 in a 53 (same basic chassis) and while the FE motor is 3.5" longer, the same issues will be there.
Radiator- it will be needed to be mounted in front of the support as the 6 one is, or swap the radiator support to a V8 one. I have a mechanical fan with no spacer running single groove pulleys.
Front cross member- to clear the front sump oil pan, notching the member will be required. Although I am probably wrong, I am not aware of a rear sump FE pan.
Width wise is no issue except exhaust/steering box. A manifold that dumps center or custom headers may be required, or mount the engine 1.5" off center (which will cause transmission tunnel interference).
Good luck with your project.

 

After giving this some more thought, the question is if you plan to modify the firewall/ transmission tunnel area. I based my previous answers based on minimal modifications to that area, which entails shifting the engine forward and low enough for the torque converter housing to clear the tunnel, and a standard sump pan to be ahead of the drag link. Modifying the tunnel and moving the engine back until the head just misses the gas pedal rod will mean the use of a shallow sump ( but longer) oil pan. I think some pickups used that pan. Maybe Crazy Steve will chime in on that. Still will probably have to drop the drag link some. Using the existing springs will drop the car a little and make the ride a little stiffer, or you could opt for Aerostar springs for more drop. I know this was the first year for ball joints, but a lot of the steering stuff was nearly the same as the 53. Moving the engine back will allow you to use the existing transmission mount by elongating the holes. Leaving it forward requires fabbing up a new one.
This is not a swap that is done a lot. Most opt for the 351W as it is a lot easier, and there is stuff made for it. You could always set the motor/tranny in and see what is needed to be done.

 

I'd imagine 58 Ford engine mounts will get the engine in well, since that chassis accommodated both the Y Block and the FE. I'd all but guarantee that you're going to have to open the trans tunnel up. Not the worst modification in the world.

 

I'm for thinking that your big issue isn't going to be room for the engine, I have seen FE engines put in 56 and 57 Fords that were bolt in without any serious mods but both cars ran stick transmissions.
The big issue is getting clearance for that trans.

 

I put a 430 MEL in a ‘55 Ford, very similar to the ‘54, I think. The radiator stayed in stock location, no transmission hump modifications. Had to hand make the dual exhaust from the stock manifolds. My 430 had the odd engine mounts and I had to fabricate my Oem mounts using Flathead biscuits! It should work with out too much problem.
My 55 had the 272, I kept the stock springs with no problem.




Bones

 

Re previous answers, the 53 mentioned still had the old king pin front suspension, while the 54 was the first year for ball joints, so the frame is likely different in that area.

the 54 frame and front suspension carried over through 1956, but the 57 and 58 went from relatively straight rails to the coke bottle type frame for a lower ride height.

I know FE swaps were popular in the 56 Ford back in the day, so the 54 should be much the same.

I recall a Hot Rod Magazine story, probably from the late sixties, about some guy in California running a 7000 rpm 352 in a 54 coupe. I think there was information on the swap, if you can somehow search for that issue of HRM.

Seems like it was almost a drop in swap, although the car was running a four speed.

 

One thing I have read about the 1956 / FE swap is you just put the engine mounts on backwards and they fit the 56 frame! Now I’ve just heard that, but I have heard it several times.....,so it must be true! Lol






Bones

 

Don't know much about 50's Fords, I'm putting a 390 FE in a 40 Ford. Found out that 4 X 4 Ford pickups with FE's used a rear sump oil pan. Boy did that make it a lot easier to install. Just be sure to get the extended oil pump pickup tube with the rear sump pan.

 

Back in high school, mid-60's like you, one of the guys was a big fan of the Blue Oval and he/we did such a swap...now, keeping in mind that it was a long time ago, I called him and asked what he remembered.
The conversation went something like this and "I think" is used a lot...
I got a 352 and cruise-o-matic out of a 64 Galaxy that had been totaled.
I think we used y-block motor mounts. I think we needed to put a spacer under them to lift the motor a bit for clearance to the upper a-frame supports...not sure... It was tight, but did not hit anything. I remember using a driver side exhaust from a 63 T-bird. No doubt easier to find in 1966, it cleared the steering box. Those are likely hard to find. I remember needing to do something for the trans mount but it couldn't have been much. Hey, we were kids working in the driveway, how hard could it be?

Hopefully this is some comfort in that it is possible.

 

Thank you, all! This is the best feed back I've gotten.

And thank you Finn, for the HR suggestion. I'll take a look on Ebay for it but, it would help if I could at least get the year. Anyone remember the year? I'll start with '68.

The reason I choose the '54 is that I like the body style and I know the FE engine will bolt in. I was also looking for a '60 Ford (used to have a Galaxie), before buying this one but, the '54 is lighter by more than 500 lb. I also consider the '54 the first modern Ford car, with the ball joints and OHV engine.

I can't set the engine in, until it's done and will need to drive it with the 6, to get the body and paint done, as well as the upholstery.

Again, thank you and I'm looking forward to more input.

 

That guy was Ted Wells, who worked for Valley Head Service. The car was used in an Adam 12 episode.

 

Here it is.

 

Thank you 72RR, for calling your friend.
That is how we did things before the internet

 

After some of the previous comments, I went back and pulled out my 52-54 Ford Shop manual. While most of the front chassis dimensions are the same, the cross member is different. Not the first mistake I have made. It will be behind the oil pan, so it should clear. Most of my other points are applicable though. That is why we have so many experts here on the HAMB. You get various inputs.

 

It's been a looong time since I messed with one of these... Most that were done were '55-56 Fords. But here's what I remember...

Motor mounts. Ford used the same V8 mounts '54-58, and the trick for the FE into the '55-56 was just to swap them side-to-side and the motor would drop right in. Now there is some chassis differences between the '54 and '55-56, but I don't recall exactly what. I'd use these mounts as my starting point in any case. If anything, your radiator may be too far forward.

Maybe you could post some engine compartment pics to refresh my memory...

Springs, I'd at least try the six cylinder ones. With an aluminum intake, water pump and aluminum-cased trans, engine/trans weight is going to be quite a bit less than the 292/auto combo and may not be much more than the six. Worst case, use OEM V8 front springs.

The C6 was new-fangled in those days and nobody I knew could afford one, the cast-iron Cruisomatics dropped in. You may have to do some slight tunnel bashing and trimming of the x-member. Ford did tend to move the trans mount on the tailshaft around slightly from model-to-model in the '60s-70s, don't be surprised if some fab work is needed.

And as usual on Fords, exhaust will be the main issue. We used the 'logs' in those days, poor breathing but they fit. Ford used some fairly 'compact' manifolds in the late '60s in the Mustangs/Fairlanes that are being reproduced but they also added more flange bolts to the heads (14/16 instead of 8) which your heads lack so no help there. This stuff just isn't as common as it once was, and it didn't help that many manifolds got broken during/because of flange gasket replacements. Your best bet will probably be to call Stan at FPA (Ford Powertrain Applications ) as he does offer a set of FE headers for these but it mentions rack and pinion steering and I don't know if that's a requirement or an option. He does offer a '55-56 specific set, so there's some difference.

And what the guys that do SBF swaps don't realize is Ford changed the 'leading head' or head offset on their motors after the FE. Everything up til then had the drivers side head 'leading' (the rods were on the front half of the crank journals) and the firewall was formed to account for that. Everything after the FE was reversed so with the same motor location the drivers side head was now too close to the firewall, forcing you to move the motor forward creating other clearance issues. You can get a SBF in without moving the radiator with a set of home-made 'adaptors' and changing to cable throttle linkage. This puts the motor back and down for better weight balance.

 

Here is some engine compartment pictures.

 

I built a set of fenderwell headers for a 427 FE in a 54 Ford 2 door for a guy who ran B/Mp down in Florida back in the late 60's . It was a bitch to say the least. Gas welded every connection which was the way they were done back then. It was a 4 speed and the clutch linkage was the reason for the fenderwell headers.
He also made a set of Thunderbolt traction bars for it. the car was a real ground pounder back then.

 

If you're going to have trouble, it'll be around the steering box. That sure doesn't look any different than the '55-56. I think your only real issue will be exhaust if you don't want the 'logs'.

As for the mounts, they'll fit any FE block. You can back-fit any FE, it's the early blocks in later cars where you'll have problems.

 

I've heard that a R&P steering can be used but, I have yet to find a R&P conversion. Does anyone have any info on that?

Also, I have looked on the covers of the Ebay listed HR Mags, for 67, 68 and 69 w/o any luck but, I have yet, to be able to read the table of continence, for those years and months.

I'm off to look at the earlier covers now.

 

Like several other guys I did a couple of those swaps a long time ago. I’m pretty sure that we did just what Steve said and swapped the Y block mounts side for side. Radiator wasn’t a problem, neither was the transmission tunnel (maybe a little whack in a couple places). I seem to remember making a little crossmember/mount for the back of the trans out of channel iron. But like he said once it’s mocked up in there I’m sure there’s a simple solution. We did them in my parents garage with almost no tools; oxy-acetylene torch, body grinder, an electric drill and a small Craftsman tool kit.
I do remember doing custom headers on both (that was my specialty). The ‘56 was tight going over the A-arms and behind the tires (fenderwell headers) so on the ‘54 we shimmed the engine up a little and I built Tri-Y headers, again fenderwell exit.
This is a classic combination. I’m really looking forward to watching it come together. Oh yeah, did I mention that the ‘56 ended up running high 11s with a very streetable 390?


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My older brother put a 352 FE in a '54 Ford. It fit just fine.

Chas

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Actually, not an FE. It's an MEL.

 

khead, what are you referencing?

 

There were both FEs (Ford-Edsel) and MELs (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) in Edsels

 

Gene, I'm well aware of that. In 1963, I had a Corsair, with a 410 MEL. But, I'm not getting kheads connection to my build (I have a FE) or any other poster.

 

I know an fe will drop in in place of a Y-block...my buddy dropped a 390 in his 56 crown vic. FE motor mounts will drop right into a Y-block crossmember.. header clearance becomes an issue.