Projects 1938 Canadian Pontiac special six coupes

I am trying to find out how many of the roughly 260 Canadian Pontiac Special six coupes built are still left and would love a photo of any that are our there.
Currently I have located only six of these coupes.

I am currently working on a few web pages that will showcase these cars that used Chevrolet bodies, engines and frame but came with Pontiac front sheet metal in 38.

https://www.rodplans.com/index.php?...ac-special-six&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=711

Please post any photos you may have.

Thanks

Chris

 

Does that mean that the noses are shorter on these?

 

The wheelbase is shorter than the USA models. The area behind the seat on the USA models has been removed. I have not tried to interchange the sheet metal but I have been told that none of the Canadian parts fit on the USA models.
I show many of the differences on my web page.
https://www.rodplans.com/index.php?...adian-pontiac-&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=711

 

...This is the Road Rats CC, Toronto...and there looks to be one in the back to the right...Coupe or Sedan hard to tell...

This was around 1986 and there looks to be a fare bit Hamb Friendly in the crowd...where are they now?

Credit to Photographer, Owner
​

 

Yes it is a 38 Pontiac and looks to be a coupe. I would need to see the side or back to see if it is a Canadian special six or the bigger American framed car.
I have never heard of the the Toronto rats and I have been active in street rods here in Ontario since the late 70's

 

I always thought the Canadian Pontiac was Chevrolet from the cowl back and stretched for Pontiac front sheet metal, but those coupes look like they have narrower quarter windows, so I guess they are more differences than I realized.

 

Other than than a notch at the top of the cowl (to clear the wide hood center strip) and the dash being cut out for the bigger Pontiac speedometer they are exactly the same as the Chevrolet from the cowl back. The chassis was Chevrolet with the addition of a front sway bar. If you park the Canadian special six beside an American coupe it is very obvious how much longer the American model is.

 

Just out of curiosity, were any built for export to Australia, South Africa etc.?

 

Toronto Library Archives...me neither but I ask them to pop by and say hello...

I am just deciphering that pic maybe its Kats...

But yes they were in my region too...I may have seen them at Waterdown or Barrie...I'd like to see bigger pics of them all...

 

Never heard of such a thing...a Pontrolet?...you Canadians are weird...or at least your cars are

 

I do not know but all of the 38 Pontiacs I have found photos of in other countries has been the American body type so they could be Canadian "Deluxe six:.
GM made two very different series of Pontiac cars for the Canadian market in the 1938.
GM Canada offered the Pontiac “Deluxe six” (American type body with Chevy engine) and the less expensive “Special six” (Chevy body & engine with Pontiac front sheet metal) series both of which were available as a coupe, two or four door sedan, Pontiac Canada did not offer a convertible or wagon or the option of an 8 cyinder engine in 38

 

It was just a way to lower the sale price and to avoid import taxes which were very high at the time. We decided to improve the Pontiac with an overhead valve engine rather than the flatheads in the American Pontiacs... Funny how they improved the engine but changed the suspension back to a straight axle...

 

Well I learned something today, my first old car was a US spec '38 Pontiac Coupe. I never knew the Canadian models were different

 

Canadian Pontiacs were based on Chevy chassis and drivetrains all the way through the 1960s.

 

Correct no Flathead engines for the Canadians.
1938 was the first year for this and even then only one of the two series of Pontiacs used the Chevrolet chassis. The Deluxe version used the American Pontiac chassis with a overbored Chevy engine

 

I believe it is actually the Don River Road Rats. The Don River runs through parts of Toronto. I recognize a couple of the members. I believe the Pontiac coupe in the pic was yellow. Did not know the owner but did see it around years ago. May have gone by the name Twitch (for some reason that is ringing a bell). P. Fernley passed a couple of years ago but put a lot of miles on a chopped 36 coupe. I believe his family is still into rodding. That's not him standing next to the one in the back but he is in the pic (striped shirt) and may have purchased the car at some point. If it's the same car, it was purple and had the plates BEEBOP (when owned by Fernley). B. Hamilton is in the pic with kids in front ... the boy might be J. Hamilton who now has a family of his own. Both J and B are still heavy into rods. The 32 with the canted lights is most likely one that is still around, owned by a guy named Mark. Not sure that is Mark in the pic though.

Edit: I just took a closer look at the pic and the car in the middle, at the front (40 Deluxe?) has the BEE BOP plate on it.

 

The Canadian Pontiac's came with a 224 cu. in. overhead six for '37 to '40-'41, but definitely back to the flathead after the war. I had a '37 4dr. American body on a Chevy chassis. It had the BOP style trans with a 2 pc. drive shaft and open drive rear end. The 224's were used because the was a strike or fire and they couldn't flatheads for a few years. A buddy had a Chevy/Pont 4dr. '38. Can't remember if it was a torque tube or not. Mine also had the independent front suspension.
I also had a '48 2dr. which came with a flathead, but changed to a 261 overhead when I discovered a cracked block (flathead). Lots of similarities/differences between Canadian and American Pontiac's and other makes.
DoUg

 

I have one picture of the blue/blue car you already posted. I can't say I've seen one in person, but I'm fascinated by the subject.

Question: How do you know how many coupes were produced? My incomplete information lumps all Special 6 cars together with no further breakdown, except for the total made in each assembly plant. (Oshawa and Regina)

 

Don't want to hi jack the thread...but thank you for further clarity...Road Rats of Toronto is correct...I'm thinking Paul owned the 40 before the 36 and transferred the plates and I suspect the 36 in the pic is not his...Roddinshack did a memorial Thread below on Paul and the Bee Bop plate was on his 36. I believe the Chop also looks different and hood is Louvered on the 36 above...

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/long-time-hot-rodder-passed-away-toronto-area.1120046/

 

I cannot prove my production numbers, I have spoken to a couple people who own a special six and when I told them I owned a coupe they told me the car was very rare and the production number. One quoted 270 and the other told me that he spoke with someone at GM and 220 were made in Oshawa and 40 in Regina. The bright blue coupe is for sale right now and he is also claiming that it is one of 260. There certainly are very few of these coupes compared to a Chevrolet. I think most people purchased the American body as it was bigger and it was hard to justify spending the extra money for a Pontiac when it was clear the special six body was a Chevrolet.

 

Thanks for the explanation. (I didn't mean to challenge you, just curious.) Of course, the bigger question is, how many are left? Precious few I'm sure and a Regina built car (obviously) would be an exceptionally rare find...

 

Not a problem. It was a very fair question. I would love someone to provide a document showing the production number. I wonder if there are any differences between an Oshawa and Regina built car?

 

I do have another question for you. Does your data show two Canadian Pontiac series or three in 38? The reason I ask is that I have two owners manuals. One shows features of the Special six and the Deluxe six while the other is for a series referred to as a "224" which is the displacement of the Deluxe series engines. The 224 manual has a much earlier publication date.

 

I am not aware of any differences between an Oshawa and Regina built car, but I have no documentation to prove it one way or the other.

The info I have does not mention a "224", only the Special Six and Deluxe Six series. (Unfortunately, the person who compiled that information has passed.) I have not done this myself, but I suggest you contact George at https://www.vintagevehicleservices.com/contact
.

 

Below is the text that accompanied the pic Stogy copy/pasted from the Toronto Public Library site. That is the name I would suggest you use if you are looking for members in hopes of finding information on the Pontiac coupe in the picture. They are still around ... even had a display at the 2020 Motorama at the International Center.

These cars were made for driving: And that's just what they'll do. The Don River Road Rats win awards at custom car shows in spite of themselves and never wanted to be a car club in the first place. They're just a bunch of street rodders who want to get out and do it on the road. The cars - one of the very few rules the Road Rats have is a requirement that vehicles be pre-1952 and highly modified - are worked on in winter and driven in summer.

 

Thank you I will give them a try.

 

Any luck with that?
.

 

I have just recently done so and await a response. I wanted to do some more research so I could ask my questions with a more solid background knowledge.
Below is the questions I sent:
I am the owner of a 1938 Canadian Pontiac special six coupe and am researching the history of the car for an article I am writing.

I am hoping that you may be able to clarify for me the Pontiac models that were available in Canada in 1938.

I have been using original owners manuals, sales brochures and parts / service manuals printed by GM Canada in 1938 and I have found some discrepancies regarding the available models.

The sales brochure shows the Canadian models as the “Deluxe” and “Special” six series.

The parts book lists three series:

2500 which I believe is the Special six based on the wheelbase and 216 ci engine as well as the fact that my VIN tag shows a model 8-25-17 – Would you know how many coupes were built?

2600 which I believe is the Deluxe six as it has the longer wheelbase and the 224 ci engine.

2800 – Imported model? Comes with a flathead 8 cylinder engine

My two owners manuals are different. One lists the Deluxe and Special six while the other is for a “Model 224” I have seen some of the Deluxe cars with “224” hubcaps while others have “Pontiac” on them.

Is the “Model 224” the same as the “Model 2500” / Deluxe six? If no why does the “Model 224” not appear in the sales literature and parts books?

Was the “Model 2800” available in Canada in 38”

Any help you may be able to provide would be much appreciated.

Best regards

Chris

 

Don River Road Rats started in 1984 and is still an active club today. I just started an instagram page that will document all of the clubs old photos.

 

The banner used in the article was the same banner used at motorama in 2020