Hi all, I am new to the site but have followed it in years past. Does anyone know how to adjust up a caliper on a 70 Lincoln Versailles brake? I replaced the left rear caliper and then bled all the brakes but have no pedal at all. I think it’s because the caliber is too loose on the rotor but I can’t seem to figure out how to adjust it down. The pedal goes all the way to the floor and I have no leaks and have bench bled the master cylinder . Any help is greatly appreciate it thanks guys
IIRC, those had a 'ratchet' ***embly internal on the caliper that adjusted the piston whenever the e-brake was used. Those didn't have a separate e-brake ***embly like the later rear discs do. They proved to be very troublesome and Ford discontinued them after all the complaints they got. Try setting/releasing the e-brake multiple times, see if that helps. Those Versailles rears were the hot ticket for a while until everyone figured out how bad the brakes were, not so much anymore....
I'll also note that if replacing pads, you can't just push the pistons back in because of that ratchet ***embly. A special tool is required, the piston has to be turned in with the tool...
Steve, I got a disc brake kit from TSM (when they were "The Street Rod Manufacturing", it was ~'82). It used the Versailles rotors. It also used GM calipers. Looking at their kits now, the offer a separate E-brake caliper to go with it. They are not using Versailles rotors any more. I was product development for them. They had never sold a kit for a truck before. My big flanges meant I had to machine rotors ID and flanges OD to fit. (OT '72 Bronco). The rotor they use for trucks now apparently fits. It will probably mean new caliper brackets, but you could probably use GM calipers on your rotors and get away from the Versailles'. I'm sure that someone here can tell you which one includes E-brake. Back in the day, there weren't many cars with rear discs, the calipers with E-brake really didn't exist. I used a line lock on the rear to get through Delaware's easy inspection. Just a thought, Mike
Someone here brought up switching to a better disc set-up for these, but supposedly there's difficulty because Ford 'clocked' the axle ends differently than other 9" rears and used an oddball axle.
I was thinking existing rotors with different (GM?) calipers. To get away from the Versailles calipers. In my application the Versailles' rotors were compatible "mid-sized" GM calipers of the day. Mike
All true. I had to dump a Versailles 9" from my OT project car because of the brakes. It's less about the axle ends than it is the axle offset. I didn't want to spend money on a drum brake setup if it wasn't going to work and I never got a definitive answer on what I need, so I gave in and put a Mopar rear end back under my Mopar. I think it's "better" that way, but not as interesting as it was with the Ford rear. The clocked axle ends can be corrected by welding up and redrilling the backing plate. I went so far as to make a template to help with that. The ends affect bleeding the brakes because it positions the bleeder so it's not at the highest point.
The Calipers are left and right side , and the parking brake adjuster, which also pushes the piston into contact with the pad are left and right handed thread. these brakes where quite popular when they first came out. Fell out of favour when newer and simpler designs came out. I think google will be your friend on this one to get them adjusted and bled correctly.
Nice info above... I'd be surprised if there weren't newer Ford style disc brake kits now that might be used instead, but don't know for sure. I did the Versailles deal on my 37 Fordor, but I had all the hard to find / no longer made stuff, like the e-brake levers, and got new calipers and misc parts from a company in Canada that had virtually anything Ford you wanted. Don't know if they are still in business. Luckily, I also got detailed drawings of the system from the local Ford dealer's parts desk (the fellow was also a hot rodder). I never got the special tool for running the pistons back in, just used a big *** screw driver. Also used a Lokar cable to work the brakes for periodic adjustments.
It's been 20 years since I installed one for a fellow. I remember that I had to adjust up the piston to take slack out of pad to rotor clearance. Think it was a 2 pin spanner, similar to kind used on angle grinders. As mentioned above, there is a left and right side, and the internal adjuster, which works off of the parking brake system, is designed to work off of that orientation. I remember, because I re-clocked the mounting bracket so that caliper would clear the sway bar, and in doing so, I had to swap the internals side to side, so that the park brake adjuster would work when pulling the cable, and also have the bleeder up. If you didn't understand that, I'm sorry, wish I had a picture to help.
Borrowed from another forum: Just a Cut and Paste, to give you more info: Have you adjusted the pads so there is a small clearance between them and the disk? You should have just enough of a gap to barely slide the rotor on and off the calipers with the pads installed. To adjust the distance you must pull the caliper away from the rotor, remove the pads and look at the end of the piston. It will have two small holes about 1 inch on center. You can make an adjusting tool using a piece of flat stock metal and two bolts the correct dia that fit into the holes. Some pads have a small pin that must align with the piston hole and therefore you can only turn the piston a half turn at a time. If you don't have them don't worry about it. Make sure the piston is fully retracted by putting some pressure on it with a large c-clamp and a socket to straddle the nut on the emergency brake. Don't get crazy, just enough pressure to push the piston to the bottom. Now you can start adjusting the piston out (by unscrewing it, it has internal threads inside the emergency brake) until you get about a thickness of a piece of paper clearance between the rotor and pads (installed back on the caliper). If done correctly you should be able to rotate the emergency brake lever no more than 15 to 20 degrees. If more then the 20 degrees then go back and adjust the piston out a little more. Usually this adjustment process is done before you mount the calipers onto the housing or bleed the brakes. I hope you have enough flex hose lenght so you don't have to break the hydraulic lines loose and have to rebleed. If the pistons are really out of adjustment it is possible that the rear brakes will not work at all. In order for the emergency brakes to work properly you must install what I will call a force multiplier. You can not generate enough pulling force with the hand brake (or foot brake). This is nothing more than a 6" long piece of flat stock metal with holes at the ends and in the middle. Attach a bolt to the frame and thru one of the holes in the end so that it pivots, attach the hand brake/foot brake cable to the hole in the other end, and attach the emegency brakes to the hole in the middle. This should about double the pressure applied to the emergence brakes. One additional item, you must hook up the emergency brake and use it regularly. Operation of the emergency brake is essential for maintaining proper adjustment. Every time you use the emergency brake an internal thread inside will make a slight adjustment if necessary, to maintain proper pad to rotor distance. If the emergency brake is never used the pad to rotor gap is continue to increase. These brakes are not like typical disk brakes where the seal will set the proper pad to rotor gap as the pads wear.
Simply using the parking brake will adjust the pistons out, if they do not stay out the ratching mechanism inside the piston is bad/defective.
Just as others advised, the caliper piston is adjusted out by the parking brake. You must have the parking brake hooked up and use it every so often. That should fix your problem ***uming the calipers are working properly. Sent from my SM-A102U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
The caliper piston tool was called "the cube" 6 sided little cube with 2 little protruding circular things on each side all spaced differently then any of the other sides. Like was mentioned you can rotate the emergency brake arm and it'll rotate the piston outward, there's also a certain angle the arm has to be at for the brakes to operate properly. I just got rid of my Versailles rear end because of all the brake b.s. ***ociated with it. Street Rodder magazine did a very informative article on the rear end back in the early 90's, I have the issue squirreled away somewhere.
Today I am completing a rear end swap on my 54 Chevy. I removed the Versailles rear and replaced with a 8.8 Ford Ranger. It is 3/8" wider than the Versailles. I was never able to get the rear brakes to work correctly. I have over 50 years experience with working on hot rods and this was the most difficult and frustrating experience I have had. I pick up the new driveshaft later today. By tomorrow I should I have decent brakes and I will have two Versailles rear ends and lots of extra parts for sale.
I owned a '78 Granada with the 9"/K/H rear discs and remember there was a small hole in the park lever that had to be aligned with a hole in the caliper (or bracket) using a small pin or punch, in order to properly adjust the park cables, so that the caliper piston would adjust per design. This may be a key reason why so many have problems with this brake. These calipers never gave me any problems while providing very good braking especially when pulling a trailer. The biggest issue was/is the cost of rebuilt calipers and the directional rotors 40 years ago, let alone today. One problem I did discover more recently was interference with the park levers and inner rear fender sheet metal on a friend's '36 Ford, something to watch for.
I referred to your posts trying to get brakes on your ride when trying to figure out what to do with my rear. I thought you had it sorted out though. It sure makes me glad I didn't start throwing money at the problem. I almost did.
Still trying to surf thru this web site so hope this goes thru. I took off the caliper and adjusted it out to just drag a little and tried to bleed. no success. I took off the new master and bench bled it because there was a hitch when I pushed down on the brake pedal but all insides were perfect. thought maybe the cups were hanging up.I used teflon tape around the bleed screws and tried sil-glyde around the ******s all with no results.There are no leaks that I can see in the system. Next week i'll try a power bleeder and push thru the system from the master and hopefully that will work. as I said before the calipers are just dragging so I don't see that as the problem. used new copper crush washers too. Fingers crossed
There are 3 balls and a ramp on the the rear ( inside ) of the pistons . As you apply the parking brake then balls run up the ramp to ratchet the piston out for adjustment . If you never apply the parking brake , the piston will never automatically adjust to take up pad wear . The disc brake parking brake would never hold as well as my drum brake axle did . I installed a roll pin in the hole to stop the parking brake from working and removed my calipers once a year for manual piston adjustment . Once I did this I never looked back it worked great and gave me a chance to inspect pads and leaks . As far as bleeding issues , the bleeder screws must be at the top of the caliper , you can swap lt to rt easily and the bleeders would be at the bottom , never allowing you to get the air out of the system . If you have them correctly installed I can not see any issue as to why you can not “ bleed “ the brakes .
I got to test drive yesterday with the replacement 8.8 Ranger rear end and shoe type brakes. It is an improvement over the disc brake Versailles 9 inch that I have struggle with over the last 3 years. I will not go back to the Versailles rear and I will sell both of the ones I have.
The Jalopy Journal
