Does the steering wheel turn equal amounts left and right? This goes back to another post about have the box centered when driving straight ahead. It won't cause the wheel to not return, but it will cause it to wander around. Gear box grease should be a 00 or 000 grade grease that flows back in on itself. The wrong grease can make them steer funny.
How's the grease in the Heim joints? Are they fully lubed? I don't like Heim joints for steering links, but you will soon have many guys saying they are just fine.
Theyre definitely just fine & the good quality ones don't take grease , they're UHMW lined plus the solid shank/ no zero design makes them stronger. From research & experience .
Scrub radius is why I mentioned the steering arms. They need to have the proper angle toward the axle center. This makes the inside wheel wheel turn a tighter radius when cornering and helps return to center. If the Vega box isn't adjusted on the high point of the worm it will also cause weird steering . It must be set to be on center with the car pointed straight ahead. Alignment settings are critical and some cars can have a problem with as little as 1/4 degree off. I should have the factory data on your car if you want it. Also, it would be helpful to know exactly what components you used in the front suspension (Not the steering parts. Springs, shocks, etc. and a description of suspension mods.).
when you installed the steering box did you make sue that the sector shaft was in the middle of the worm nut at dead ahead the high point or grab point of the centre of the sector and nut, correspond to the pitman being straight out, and this is your middle - or IF you have tapered rails and set the box flush to the rail, and then proceed to point the pitman straight ahead, the setor will not be in the middle at its tightest point for straight ahead 'grab' IF you have adjusted the box to tighten in thjinking you are in the middle, then the box will go tight as you go to the actual middle plus IF you have no form of ball nut 'spindle stops' and are simply relying on the inside ball nut contacting the inside of the steering boxs casting as your limits, you will stretch the brass pair of hoops that the reciprocating balls track through, there being 54 ball bearings in two tracks, the hoops are soft brass so you can really make a mess of a steering box
Trollst, it was funny when I read your post, I've taken the box off and have it in a large vise as we speak. I'm debating on putting a 525 box on it or trying to readjust this one and sticking it back on. I did pull the top and checked the grease and made sure there wasn't any trash or salt water when it came over from china. Didn't have a whole lot of time today, pulling the box was the last thing I did but I did plumb bob the chassis to double check myself. Wheel base is dead on and from corner to corner I am 1/8 of an inch off on the right side. I hate to change the mounting plate and screw with the other stuff it'd take to change the box over, wish I'd used the 525 box the first time. I'll decide tomorrow and thanks for all the great info. One thing I do need to do is fab some stops, I was going to do that but for some reason it never got done. You guys are great when it comes to helping out.
I'll sit this one out............while all the experts "machine gun" answers at the OP. Everybody seems to think this only happened with a steering box swap! Whereas if you read the OP's original vague request, he is comparing this to another build [a Model A] with similar components.[except the steering box] Whereas the truth is.....everything will be different, starting with the frame. We haven't seen one photo, and there is not enough information....."just a cry for help"
Without seeing good clear photos of the whole suspension and steering it is hard to come up with an actual solution except to guess or say what has worked in the past. It looks like you are working at getting the box to work as smooth as it will work and adjusted right. Follow what Dana Barlow said to do in post 25 in that you need to center the steering box when it is in the chassis and with the wheels straight ahead (with correct toe in) adjust the drag link length to connect to the pitman arm. That way you know that the box should be going back to center when the wheels are headed straight down the road. The drag link is reasonably close to parallel with the tie rod as far as front/rear goes? If it has too much angle running from the pitman arm to the steering arm it isn't going to want to work right. I've seen that on a home done 4x4 swap in an early chassis. One thing not covered nor mentioned= Miss matched tires front and rear??? If you have skinny radials on the front and fat bias on the back it isn't going to drive right no matter what you do or if you have the reverse mix it isn't going to drive right. Too much offset one way or the other on front wheels can cause a rig to not want to track right. That includes adding adapters or spacers to clear the drums, calipers or what not with the wheels of choice. That is where the scrub radius thing comes into play. Camber? I don't believe that is the issue at all. Excess camber on one wheel usually causes a car or truck to want to drift to one side. Most rear wheel drive cars and trucks like 1/4 more positive camber in the left (US roads driver in the left seat) front than the right front to compensate for the camber in the road on two lane roads. They drift to one side but don't "pull" to that side. It also can cause excess tire wear on one side of the tire if it is really excessive (think those lowered rice boxes with the tires leaning way in) . I'm going to assume that you will check the toe in again and check for any binding in any and all pieces of the steering linkage and the king pins. Keep us posted on the updates when you get a chance.
I am going to suggest that you check your Ackerman angle. If it is wrong it will beat steer. Give me a minute and I will try to find you a picture of what I am talking about.
Ok here is a good one. If your steering rods are behind the axle it is the same just make sure that that land on the line drawn. I usually use a piece of twine to check it. Some guys are using laser now but string works just fine.
The main question of the post is; "I'm wondering if it's in this Vega box and has anyone used one of these."
It could be.... If it has long steering arms on the spindles combined with a short pitman arm and the steering box is 20:1 or higher. [this is common with hack-job steering modifications] But the clue is the car is wandering all over the place .........which is a geometry/suspension problem. Usually a worn or loose steering box = excess steering wheel play. But it doesn't cause the vehicle to wander all over the place. It could be something as simple as bumpsteer and the OP overtightens the steering box to compensate and creates 2 problems. Or the front end could be up to spec ,but the rear suspension is causing the vehicle to "Tramline" I'll sit by my crystal ball and wait and see.
Scrub radius is a combination kingpin inclination and wheel offset. Kingpin inclination the inward tilt of the top of the king pin is there to make the car return to straight ahead after a turn. Caster will make a car rise in a turn but only one side as you are turning the other side will drop. Kingpin inclination makes both side raise letting gravity cause the car to drop back to to the straight ahead position.
I am pretty sure it is very poor china machine work on the steering box. You just can't get this to steer right with this box. I went and found one today, 525, off a S10. Pitman arm on the Vega is 7 1/4 or 7 1/2 center to center, it's still on the car and hard to measure, and the S10 is 6 inches. Once I get it on I will check the Ackerman. As far as the front end on mine verses a my model A, it is basicly the same except the steering. It has a model A cross member, spring and Speedway round tube axle, Model A 6 in drop, this one, 2 in drop. Drag link runs right with the steering rod.
Ackerman only effects tyre scuff on tight radius turns [you can have zero ackermann with radial tyres] Ackerman won't cause your car to wander. Wheel allignment or poor steering components will. If your car is wandering over an uneven surface while the steering is pointing straight ahead ,then there is no Ackermann in this situation anyway. Forget Ackermann...... this subject has been "beaten to death" How about a photo of the front end , so we don't need to take wild guesses. It could be something simple like "shackle wobble" and cross steer combined. Edit: Check the end play of the steering box [up /down the column]
I can't believe this thread has lasted for two pages before anyone asked for pictures, I also can't believe whoever started this thread didn't post pictures at the beginning. Also: Friend of mine runs a Hot Rod shop, has replaced several China made steering boxes (on vehicles someone else built) because of internal failure. In other words, if it has anything to do with steering, braking, or stopping, don't buy it from China.
I was wondering about shackle wobble, too. Did you measure to be sure this car isn't "dog tracking"?. This is a stupid question and I know I will catch some shit over it, But here goes anyway: You do realize that in setting your caster angle that positive caster has the axle leaning back at the top, right? Negative caster is dangerous on your setup and will make the car almost impossible to control. 10 degrees of caster doesn't make sense to me. An example: on one of my A's with radial tires I had to actually reduce caster from Ford specs of 5 degrees (w/bias tires) to closer to 3 degrees to eliminate a slow shimmy, so who knows. The shackle angle with the car on the ground should be about 45 degrees toward the perch pin. Pictures would really help otherwise it's like wrestling with a snake in the dark. Just some thoughts from an old man with a leaky brain.
Just a thought. If the box was perfectly centered and if the box was adjusted too tight, it would always be trying to go to one side or the other of the wide tooth and would be hard to keep going straight. Gary
This is the issue I’ve found was a problem in the past. Box/king pins too tight at some point during turning. Even a rack and pinion with the friction button adjusted too tightly behaves exactly the same way.....just something you might want to address..... Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
I would suspect that there is more than one problem. My '29 Roadster started darting all over the road when I drove it the other day. Low right rear tire....it had 6 psig air pressure in it when I checked it. My pre-trip check sucked I always start with the basics...hell, low tire inflation will do all you are describing but, as stated, we are shot gunning without adequate information to take a knowledge based approach...photos?
im getting to thinking that.... a 6 1/4'' long pitman arm isnt enough to attain the required 62mm 2 3/6'' travel to the spindle stops each way, before the ball nut contacts the inner casting i reckon it needs to be longer. i dont think you get to the stops thats going by a stock 37 spindle steering arm of 5 and 7'' 125mm adn 175mm oh and if you have the s10 pitman arm part number15595962 the taper is wrong for early ford they are 6'' on centres and the drop of 2'' is too much p.s. the sector of a vega pitman spline is 1'' 525 is 1 1/6 if you go and puy a cheap pitman arm puller, hold the puller in a vice to stop the legs spreading and once you have it light, give it a tap not a thwunk note that at the top of the sector is a precision cut slot, the upside down threaded pin has a spacer that is specifically tolerance machined so there is no slop - so do not disturb. or the sector will rise up. a c3 corvette 16-1 input worm will fit an 18- 1 68 mustang will not power pitman arms are 1 1/8 so none will fit. the range or sweep of a 525 compared to a vega is greater hense you can run a shorter pitman and a faster ratio, especially in a light weight vehicle its because you cannot see the inside of the bax as it travels, you do need to be in the range of the sweep of the sector teeth in my opinion, as I think the box is DESIGNED to loosen up at full lock so it returns, something like that while I am on - its only IF you have bought brand x - y and z and 1 steering arms and measured them all against a stock spindle, will you discover that they are all different. Steering Upgrade With Help From A Borgeson 525 Saginaw Steering Box (chevyhardcore.com) fyi vega boxes are 22-1 vegas probably had real short steering arms by fitting a 16-1 ratio box and using if you like longer than vega steering arms you are simply correcting the lock to lock i.e. you havnt doubled your error by using a slow box and long arms Borgeson Universal Company :: Saginaw Manual Boxes :: OEM Saginaw 525 Manual Box, Quick Ratio Short Input the reason why your stock s10 box has a long input shaft, is because when they fit a saginaw 800 power box into it, the input splines land in the same place - its that simple
I've almost got the 525 box done. If I can get back in time tomorrow from the doctors and hospital for Mom, I'll finish it and drive it. I drilled the pitman arm to 5/8 for a heim joint, everything is good and free on the car, king pins, shackles and everything else, it's all new. I would put pics up but I can't get them from my phone to my lap top. The cable is among the missing and I think a 13 week old blue healer is the culprit. This stuff isn't new to me, I've done several straight axles and worked on this stuff 50 years. 18 at ford, 5 at GM and 18 in a large salvage yard. Plus the garage at home would keep me real busy but I've cut back on it for some health reasons. I talked to a guy that had the same problem as I've been having and he had a bad vega box. Sent it back and got another one and it was fine after that. I think those 10 year old china kids put out a bad one every now and then.
So a guy has a crappy knock-off vega box, sends it back and they send him another one and he actually put it on his car? Why blame the Chinese workers? The problem started with buying a cheap off shore steering box that numerous threads and subsequent posts have warned against.
I don't think I've ever owned a hotrod that didn't have big tires in the rear, and little tires in the front. And none of them drive bad with the wide and skinny combination. If this was the case there'd be a bunch of people here asking why their hotrod drove poorly?
He'd done payed for the box plus the shipping, why not try another one. Do you all know most of the so called USA made parts you all are buying are made in china or have parts made there? I put a push button start in my car after 3 ignition switches, name brand, went bad, 2 out of the box. Brands that were USA, ain't no more. Also, all the tires are radials and not cheap ones either.
Kinda funny. I bought some wheels a couple of months ago with Walmart's cheap Douglas tires on them. The tires are made in the USA. Gary
No, the whole front suspension. As a couple of posters have mentioned, there may be other issues involved beyond the steering box. Therefore, pictures would help.
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