1952-59 Ford 1956 Mercury engine swap options, anyone done a 400M?

351C in my 56. Passenger side has plenty of room. Driver side would would with stock exhaust manifold. There are 2 styles. If you decide to go with the 400 I can give you the part number/application that fits. Still tight. I built a header for the driver side. I also added recess to the firewall (stock from another 56) but not really necessary - just looks better to me. Mines a built Boss 351 and I love the power. But thats up to you.

 

Thanks for posting. Looks really nice. If you have a Boss 351 build then that has 4v heads right? My 400 has 351c 2v heads. That a Ford or Merc and is the steering gear the factory one?

 

Thanks. Steering gear is factory. And yes I have 4V close chamber heads... 2v heads exhaust is even smaller and tighter fitting. I'm pretty sure you would not have a fit problem with factory cast exhaust.

 

Another poster way back on this thread bought a 56 Merc with a 400 and the engine was mounted an inch to the right and still the left manifold was hitting the steering gear. So he pulled it out and went back to a Y block. Maybe there are multiple 351c and 400M exhaust manifolds and some fit, some don't.

The 400 manifolds I have do fit in a 57 with a 58 steering gear, but not the same engine compartment or frame on those. I also have a 55 Crown with a 351c. It has a wider 4 bolt steering gear top than the Merc 3 bolt top, yet stock 351c manifolds worked on that Crown. Not sure what engine mounts are on it, probably have to crawl under it. But it is the lowest car I have.

I do have some 73 Mustang 351c headers on the 400 that I could probably modify in the worst case, but sure not gonna mount the engine off center. Though I understand there were a number of factory cars and trucks where they were mounted like that.

 

The center front of the crossmember is now completed, except for welding cuz my weld thru primer inside is not fully dry and started smoking. So, I just tacked the front center in position. Will weld it fully tomorrow and add a cowcatcher. If my wife does not draft me for gardening projects.

As you may recall, I cut out the factory tin shields/umbrellas that shroud the front A arm bolts. Made my own by cutting 2 inch square tubing in half and just long enough to fit inside crossmember.

This shields like the factory, but is way stronger. 11 gauge just like the rest of the metal I used. Plus they fit real good on the inside against the bolt locating heavy factory gusset so I was able to weld it front and back on the inside before putting the top center in place. So they also serve as crossmember reinforcements. Outer ends of those will be welded also, when I cut out the front outer sections to do those.

I also added a vertical piece of square tubing for an added brace at the center. Rosette welded that center brace to lower front crossmember section and welded both sides on the brace top to the only remaining center piece of the crossmember. That being the top. Left the center interior brace about a half inch off the floor of the crossmember for drainage purposes.

Spent a lot of time fitting and re-fitting that center piece because I want to be able to weld it to both those new inner umbrellas and the outside of the diamond shaped gussets in the same welding passes. The inner braces/umbrellas, the outer A arm gussets and the new front center will all be joined as one in those welds.

The center front top is another piece of 2 1/2" square tubing, cut in half and turned around backward so the top has a 90 degree outward bend just like the crossmember original front. So, I left 5/8" lip on top to match the original top front and left about a 3/16" lip on the bottom where I will***** weld the top and bottom center front sections together. That weld will get covered by the cowcatcher anyway though.

Still have the front outer sections to go, but the square tubing braces can soon come off with the center all complete and 3 1/2 of 4 sides of outer crossmember all complete. Plus those new inner braces and the cowcatcher yet to come. It is definitely not going anywhere now...

Blazing hot again, so it is slow going though. When I finally get the last 2 front outer crossmember pieces on I will spray the whole inside with Eastwood frame preservative which has a little hose and 360 degree little nozzle on the hose end. It will fit in the drainage holes I drilled. (5 in the center, 2 on the low end of each of the the bottom outer pieces.)

 

50sboy,
Got any pics from build phase of your firewall modifications?

 

And the manifold number you say would likely fit, that is a 351c or 400 manifold? I have both a 351c left side and a 400 left side. The 400 is a half inch bigger outlet 2 1/8" roughly compared to 351c at 1 7/8", even though also off a 2v engine, plus the overall larger size.

 

here ya go...

 

Thank you. Room for the revised head orientation, if needed.

 

Didn't get a lot done today. Oppressively hot again. But the front center is welded and ground down. Makeshift cowcatcher is started, but won't get finished and welded on til tomorrow. All new ball joints and A arm bushings have arrived, so should not have any delays waiting for parts.

 

Out of 2 1/2" square tubing to do the ends on the front, but will just use my bracing pieces for top ends of crossmember on the front after cowcatcher is welded on and I cut the front braces off.

May go ahead and do the tops of the front outer crossmember the same as the center. Remove the front upright sections entirely, grind the 2 7/8" spaced spot welds from underneath, break off the strip attached to original crossmember top.

Then cut my top sections the same as the center with a***** weld joining top and bottom together and inner ends welded to the A arm bolt locating gussets the same as the center.

Seemed to work quite well on the center front upper piece.

 

Replacement cowcatcher is almost done. Will have to straighten it tomorrow cuz I put very heavy welds both sides of the slices made in it to simulate the original and it is warped in several directions. It is slightly oversize anyway and I am confident I can beat it back into alignment.

But I am calling it good enough for the Roadkill Merc. Still have to set the angle of bottom part of it to match my frame, weld across the indent I made on the back to bend it, straighten it, and weld it on. My little 36" Harbor freight brake could not bend that metal so I ground an indent with a cutoff wheel in back to bend it and then I will weld the indent back up again.

 

From what I have seen it was good enough for roadkill BEFORE you started!

 

I get a kick out of their antics and improvisations, but I think even they would have patched the crossmember at the very least before sticking a motor in it. It was pretty frail. The rest of the car would probably be acceptable to them as-is though. Whole rest of the frame looks very stout.

 

Keeping on, keeping on. Getting tired of this crossmember business, but inching toward completion. Cowcatcher welded on this morning and my weld across the back of it corrected the warping by sheer luck.

I could have clamped it down to force it straight anyway, but it is nice to put it up there and it fits like intended. Added 3 drains to that too cuz of how bad the original had rusted on the inside. Bottom of crossmember would probably work for a shower head now with all the drain holes it has.

But, now only the front two outer sides remain to be done. I cut out the square tubing bracing on driver side front and then cut out the remainder of the front outer vertical crossmember end, including the spotwelded strip left at the top. The front left side had varying degrees of rust inside. About an inch and a half to two inches down from the top was OK, but figured I may as well take it all and have a nice new lip at the top.

Plan got changed to the square tubing due to materials on hand, so now my lower front outer sections are both too tall and I will have to trim another 1/2 to 3/4 inch roughly off both side lower front pieces to accommodate the upper pieces in their full 2 1/2" height. Either that or cut the square tubing a like amount shorter. Will decide that tomorrow.

Had some trouble getting the cut piece pulled out so the scrap rebar was put back in use by welding it to the cut piece for a lever/handle, so I could twist it free of the crossmember. Spotwelds were a little tougher to get at on the top strip, but a 3" right angle die grinder just barely fits up there. Obviously would be easier if the bumper and front clip was off, but I don't want to pull them yet.

Welded the outboard side of the square 2" tubing brace above the A arm bolt front and back inside there right away once I had it opened up so I don't forget that. And then welded the lower rear seam corner inside that was already welded on the outside.

Made another posterboard pattern and rough cut both left and right side pieces while I am at it. Cut the passenger side piece further oversize just in case it differs at all once I get to the other side. But that should be the last piece finally.

Supposed to rain tomorrow, so it remains to be seen if I will be able to finish it tomorrow, or not...

 

Not sure I like the outboard end of that front piece cut out. Does not appear in pics to be as clean as the rear is. May have to go all the way to main frame rail. Will rescue that piece from the trash can and clean it up tomorrow, then decide.

 

Here is the left hand front piece of crossmember rescued from the garbage. Cleaned up outboard end with wire wheel brush on bench grinder to keep from grinding off any solid metal. Thickness measures right between 13 and 14 gauge. Cut outboard end looks plenty solid to weld on.

Here is the front, this is the only part you can see when the crossmember is fully****embled. Looks pretty good to me for 65 year old frame metal. I would not be worried if the outside of my crossmember all looked like this. No worries, right?

 

However while it looks quite passable on the outside, here is the inside. Bottom inch at least exhibits deep pitting even though this is way up at main frame level and so there would never have been water or wet debris sitting way up at the top. If there was then the rear vertical section should exhibit the same rust on lower edge. But it does not. See pics in post 82.

So, there is likely more rust even further outboard on that front vertical piece remaining in place. I will take my mini sander and angle the drive on it to see if I can get in there and negate that****umption. Not thinking it is likely though and will probably have to take that last outboard section off too.

Just thought I would post this so the big difference between inside and outside is apparent. There can be significant pitting on the inside, even when the outside looks pretty decent. Back to the grind...

 

Tight quarters trying to remove that remaining end piece. Discovered that leaving a lip for vise grips to clamp on to makes it easier to break off the pieces spot welded to crossmember top.

So, I got it out all the way to outer frame rail now. Cleaned up the inside again, as per plan put Eastwood rust killer in the rear top seam and on the underside of crossmember top while the front was all open on the end. Then sprayed a few coats of weld thru primer in there and went back to carving up square tubing for replacement parts.

Decided to leave the piece already welded on the lower part at the height and shape it was. So had to start over with making replacement top pieces to match that. The pieces that I rough cut last night were now too short, so just started over. Used an air 3" cutoff wheel cuz easier to control, but it is sure slower than the electric 4 1/2"and 6" disks I have used for most of the cutting.

It surprised me how warped the remainder of tubing was after I carved out the piece. It spread out in several directions as I did the cutting. I didn't bend it at all, it just did that by itself.

So, I test fit it a few times, welded extreme lower left corner (both sides) on to the upper part cuz my material was not tall enough. Ground some more, sprayed it with weld thru primer and just clamped it in place for now. Easier to weld in the daylight and had not dragged the big welder out again either, so decided that can wait til tomorrow.

It fits well, all ready to weld. Moved on to cutting off the passenger side square tubing brace cuz I will need that material to cut the right hand crossmember front upper piece. Hopefully, reversing the poster board pattern from the driver side will fit right on there to save me some time and diddling.

Not even going to check the state of the inside of front vertical passenger side original crossmember metal and will just remove it all, as done on the driver side.

My goal for tomorrow is to have all the crossmember welding done. Do some more grinding in spots where it was not real accessible with the braces still on. Primer again, then spray bomb some Eastwood chassis black on it and call it good.

It would be nice if I also get the frame preserver sprayed inside tomorrow, but not counting on it as slow as this has been going.

The bright side is I did not get one cut or scratched finger, although I did cut a few gloves running most of these cutting disks with the shields off them so I can get in the tight quarters.

Those thin cutting disks in 4 1/2" and 6" diameter on an electric tool can do some real damage in a hurry, so one of my excuses for this taking so long, is that I actually am being more careful than usual and trying to take my time to avoid those hazards.

 

It is finally done with the exception of the internal frame coating application. Black pictures are wet paint and it should not be so glossy when it dries...

The last 2 pieces on the front outer sections are the only pieces not welded from both sides, so I beveled all the edges, cleaned the welder tip frequently, and took my time welding them to get some very solid welds.

I did not grind those welds on the front outer sections at all. Just ran the sander and stripper disks over them. More concerned about strength than appearance on this phase of the project.

Passenger side vertical front went basically the same as the driver side, so didn't take as many pics cuz process was the same. Cut as much as possible with cutoff disks, grind spotwelds from below, break top pieces off with a vise grip. Reversed the posterboard pattern from the other side and with a few slight adjustments it worked to cut the pieces for the passenger side.

Did I learn anything? Well, I think this could be done even with an engine in the car if necessary. If I had to do another I think it would be faster to get some 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 square tubing and with braces welded on front and back of A arm bolts, do essentially the same thing.

This 11 gauge is too heavy to bend so I still would do it in pieces to leave as much of the original structure in place as long as possible, and being sure to leave enough room to weld inside from the front and really secure those gussets that hold the control arm bolts.

Also need access to extract the pieces removed as you cut them out and to put additional bracing inside the crossmember, if desired.

I think this crossmember will now last longer than the rest of the car. It is far stronger and better drained than original. The gussets are welded all 4 sides on both the inside and outside to the new metal replacement sections. Metal being that thick is easy to weld too. And I was able to spend the money not spent on this crossmember on a disk brake setup instead.

But, I am sure glad to be done with this phase. Now to get the A arms off and install new bushings, etc..

 

Looks great.

 

Great Job ! I admire your welding skills and thank you for sharing this,I have posted a link to it on page Six of the "Sticky".

 

Thanks guys. One final note on this with the benefit of hindsight...

If I was doing this again, I would re-cut the lower front pieces in a straight line from the outer point of the A frame bolt locating gusset to the lower main frame on each side after it was all welded in place and then carve out the front top side plates in one piece to match that cut.

This would provide the same structural strength during the process, add even a little more inside access toward the end, and the weld across it would visually follow the crossmember lines in a nice straight line that would be more aesthetically pleasing in my mind.

Really hot again today so taking the day off from the project. Clean up the mess I made, pick up tools*****tered everywhere, and when the sun drops far enough mow the big open section of the lawn that is getting a bit overgrown..

 

About 35 years ago I put a mildly built 400M in my 56 T-Bird. Easy install except for the left exhaust. Had to build the header from the head down, steering box, clutch linkage, ect in the way.

 

That seems consistent with the full size cars too. The driver side exhaust manifold is the sticking point with a 400 due to steering box interference, but it is do-able with some one-off headers.

What did you think of the torque output of the one you installed? What stick transmission did you use in it?

 

I'm using a full size car top loader. Torque is a LOT. I know if I rev it up to about 3 grand and drop the clutch, something's going to break!!! Also, it has a lot of off idle torque. I can start from a dead stand still in 4th gear with a mild cam and 3.56 gears. On the left header, the front pipe had to go up over the steering box. A bird has a bit of engine set back compared to a full size 56. I've owned the car 53 years and still driving it now and then. I'll see if I can find or take a photo of the left header.

 

Yes, I had read about the 400 torque being similar to a 460 but without the weight penalty and length which is what motivated me to build my $10 400. Like a Buick or Cad motor in that it has loads of torque but does not like real high rpm.

So, you have a 1 3/8" big spline input toploader in it then? I do have one more of those that is rebuilt and sitting on a modified engine stand, but I was saving it for a 61 Sunliner with a 460.

I also have a good set of 351c Mustang headers on the 400 that I thought could be used as the starting point for making a one-off set of headers if I needed to do that.

 

Took a month off to work indoors in AC equipped garage on my 57 Ford convertible and got the 351c and 63 Galaxie 4 speed installed. Clutch linkage modified to work with the different engine, bell and power brakes. A lot of time to get that to my liking.

New brake lines and rear cylinders in, rear E brake cables installed, rear sway bar installed, gas tank ready to install. Deer fly swarms typical here in July and 90 degree heat made working outside on the Merc a lot less fun.

Ordered EMS 56 Ford inner and outer rockers for the Merc which should be here shortly. Expensive.. But the weather has eased up, nice outdoors temp again, so will go back to the Merc in the next few days when rockers arrive.

Still not sure what motor to install, but all the feedback has armed me with the knowledge of what obstacles to expect if I still use the 400. But, the Y block, 351w and 390 would be a lot easier, so idk yet.

Spent the last week organizing the parts mess in my pole building. Had been loading it up with parts from the 2 other garages and other parts that had been stored at a hobby farm that was sold last year. Gradually found a lot of parts I knew I had, but forgot exactly where they were.

Industrial shelves in my pole building helped get it in some semblance of order and a lot easier to find stuff now. Could barely walk around before. Now the aisles between the 5 cars in here (55 Crown, 57 Dodge CRL, 60 Impala, 61 Sunliner, 68 Torino GT convertible) are back to relatively spacious again.

 

My EMS rocker outers only arrived last week. Inner rocker I was just notified are shipping today. Slowest parts I ever ordered. So, doing other projects in the meantime.

Front automatic transmission seal from Jegs for a 455 Buick motor and trans into 56 Dodge also delayed and backordered.

Started cutting up 58 Ford convertible parts car for conversion of a Fairlane 500 4 door sedan to convertible when the seal stymied me. Used up all my .030 welding wire on X frame for that and argon mix tank is getting low too again, so I may have to venture out one of these days anyway..