Michigan Title Law Change --- No More getting titles

At least they don't inspect them here. I consider myself lucky. Nothing's worse than trying to explain the laws about old cars and "safety" equipment to the average person. Ugh.

The process used to be fill out an affadavit, get the VIN verified by the police dept (that step wasn't always necessary), pay taxes on what you said you paid, they searched the title and told you to come back in an hour. You could buy a plate right then; soemtimes the title was mailed and sometimes you got it.

I also went through the assigned VIN process for a Model T which had no frame VIN. You had the car inspected for the VIN number (omit the chacklist of safety belts, signals, etc) and took the form in. A few months later you took your car in and they affixed a VIN tag and titled it as whatever year it was, and you got a title.

 

Guess I'll be calling the DMV on Tuesday. I was told a few years ago the since Maine is not a title state for any vehicle over 15 years old , I couldn't get a title for my 1948 Ford. I think I'll check again just to be sure . You'd think if I was willing to pay for a title I could get one.

 

A couple of years ago I purchased a car from Michigan, and one from Indiana, I paid my fees and purchased collector car plates in Wisconsin. Title transfer ,and plates went smooth but my fears were correct, as now collector car plates are only approved for un modified cars. Modified cars now fall under hobby plates . Mark

 

Boy, I'm glad I live in AL! No titles were issued here before 1975, so anything before that date doesn't require one. Bill of sale, pay sales tax or ad valorum tax [value tax], get your tag. YOM tags up to 75 or vintage vehicle tags and you never pay tax on that vehicle again, but it can't be used as a daily driver. Daily drivers have to have normal tags and pay taxes every year, no matter year of vehicle. And no inspections, either! I feel for you folks that have such stringent restrictions.

 

I just titled two old cars here in Michigan. One I purchased out of a wreaking yard. As long as the vin number/serial number is present and not tampered with, it's still possible to get a new title in Michigan. First it's best to check with the SOS to make sure it is out of the system, meaning it has been off the road for 10+ years. Second, fill out the yellow title application. You will need to have the address, name, and a story of where the car came from. Third, have your local police inspect the vin/serial number and complete the green sheet. Fourth, have the vehicle appraised and documented on a licensed Michigan dealers letter head. MUST BE ON LETTER HEAD. Fifth, get a $100 dollar surety bond for twice the value of the vehicle by a licensed Michigan insurer. Sixth, take all of your documents to the SOS with original vehicle weight and wheelbase and apply for the title. One to two weeks later you will have your title. There is some cost and some running around, but not the end of the world. You can get the yellow and green sheets from the SOS when you inquire about the vin/serial number before you start this process. Just say, I'm interested in buying an antique vehicle and it does not have paperwork. It has been in a private collection for many years and the paperwork is lost. Just wanted to check the vin/serial number to make sure it is legit. and then get the two forms. If their search comes up empty, your good to go. If it has recent history, things may get complicated. Ask the SOS for next steps if applicable. Out of state vehicles will have to be checked through our SOS. They will contact the state of origin. The police will do the same during their inspection. Do your home work and trust where the vehicle came from before you go to the SOS. NEVER list a wreaking yard by name on any document. If bought from a wreaking yard, make sure the owner of the yard understands what you want to do with the vehicle. Use the owner's name and the address of the wreaking yard only. Just state on the yellow sheet that this came out of so and so's private collection. I expect this to get much harder or impossible in the future. Get your vehicle titled soon. The lady at the SOS told me time may be running out. Oh, and only do one or two at a time. If you do too many lost title applications the state will audit you and send a state inspector to your garage. And NEVER call it an abandoned vehicle. It is a vehicle with LOST PAPERWORK. Hope this helps. Good luck fellow Michiganders on rescuing these old cars before it is too late.

 

BTW, if your the original owner or have had the car for many years, then this is the same process, but less risk, because your the legal owner already. Even if you bought a car from Texas and never titled it in Michigan, as long as it is 10+ years out of any system, it is a Michigan vehicle as far as most are concerned. Keep the information on the forms simple and to the point. Unneeded information may complicate the process. If you have sweet old cars here in Michigan that have been sitting for years, do your self a favor and make sure every vehicle worth saving has paperwork. If it doesn't, go get this done before it's too late. Cars without paperwork can be worthless to buyers. Get it done! Hope this helps.

 

I know it's an old thread, but it might be useful to some. I get asked all the time at shows how to title these lost cars. I've done many, and have more to go.

 

I've been debating which would be easier in my situation. I have a 1947 Ford Coupe sitting on a Mercury frame with a title and bill of sale. I bought a 41 Ford sedan to use the floors and frame with a title which I was told went with the car. Hopefully I can get one to work.

 

Michigan resident here.

I recently titled a moped I have been building for a long time. Aside from having to have it totally street legal - lights, turn signals, horn, etc. - I had to fill out some paperwork, sign an affidavit of origin, show my receipts and construction photos, be visited by two state troopers for an inspection (they were 'biker dudes', so that went OK) and even then all the paperwork had to be sent to Lansing for approval.
I finally got a registration certificate and a sticker to put on my rear fender [no plate needed for this 'moped'].






Now I know the hoops to jump through. I'll have to be doing it again when I register my champ car for the street.

 

I'm not defending any state DMV, but take a minute to think why they make it hard to re-title a vehicle. I have read stories of unscrupulous people getting a fraudulent title and selling a car that did not belong to them. It happens more than you think. In New York State it's almost impossible to get a title for a car without several proof's of ownership.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of bill of sale verse having a title, South Carolina has been going through this for years, Georgia doesn't have a title law so to buy a car from over the border you can't get a SC title with a bill of sale.

I have fought this crap once before but now I have to pass on some cars I would like to have. HRP

 

So, the Mercury title is the wrong make and the 41 title is the wrong year and model. If the paperwork matters too you, both would be incorrect, but if the paperwork doesn't matter, then both titles would work. If ever sold to a state like Kentucky, the new owner would have to have the vin verified. In your case, it couldn't be sold to Kentucky with your paperwork. Sometimes it easier to get new paperwork from a dismantled car and re-stamp your engine, transmission, frame, or body depending on the oem placement of such numbers. In most cases with old cars it just has to appear correct. CSI doesn't get too involved in vin numbers unless the number gets flagged. Still wrong I know, but your only other choice in Michigan is to get an assembled title after you spend all the money on restoration. Then its a 2021+ Ford, etc... Just don't do a high end car like Boyd did and you should be fine, but be smart about it.

 

One other thing I've noticed. People are selling data plates stamped with your vin number for early Fords, but the data plate is for a late 40s early 50s ford truck. People are putting these data plates on their Model As and 32s and such, but if you research the patents, you will find its for a later Ford and not an early Ford. These plates are a sure red flag to any inspector that might know a thing or two. If caught, it could lead down an expensive rabbit hole. Better to re-stamp the frame or trans on an early traditional build. I figured this out when I was trying to legitimize my 26 Model T on an A frame with a mystery drive train. Where would the vin go. I figured instead of using a Model A title, I would use the Model T title and just stamp a plain brass tag and attach it to the firewall. Better than no number.. Ts had the number stamped on the engine. Well that won't work, so a plain brass tag appears to be my only option. This stuff can get tricky on the hot rods that have been body swapped or mills swapped out. It's like a Model A on 32 rails. Is it tilted as a 32 or Model A. Back in the day it should have been titled as a 32 because that is the chassis and not the body. But I bet most with this setup are titled as a Model A. Tricky it can be..

 

Sorry both titles are Ford one is 47 coupe and the other 41 Sedan

 

Oh, then your good. Title the coupe. Paperwork is easy to transfer. It's when you don't have paperwork it gets tricky.

 

Oh, and be careful selling your unneeded frame and engine block or transmission. Make sure the numbers are gone off of them. All someone has to do is install those parts on another car and get it inspected. Then they own your title. Remember, the body isn't titled. You may have no claim in court if you tried to get your serial number back. How would you prove it. You may have the paper, but they have the actual serialized part. Protect your investment. These A's can be titled by the engine or frame numbers. No complete body needed. Same goes for later Fords with transmission stampings. All you need is good numbers on a trans and you can get a title off of it mocked into a chassis. Be smart.

 

Vermont is also a state where you can get a title for anything even if you do not live there. Custom bike builders have done that for years. I recently titled my 51 Chevy in my old state of Minnesota. I was up visiting my daughter and thought I would ask about getting a title there. Missouri was giving me a hassle so I thought what the hell. No inspection, no bill of sale, wrote 400 dollars down as what I paid for it. They took the North Dakota title and issued me a free and clear Minnesota and even mailed the title to me in St. Louis!

 

Were it not for the crooks that dwell amongst us, an automobile would not be any different than a refrigerator. No title required.
But let's blame the state DMVs for trying to assure that the buyer hasn't purchased a car from someone who doesn't legally own it and have the right to sell it.

 

My '36 Ford pickup has the much-maligned Specially Constructed Vehicle title. It wasn't cheap and it's not traditional but it's legitimate. There's been discussions on here about people having an insured loss and having the insurance companies fight paying due to improper titling. I had an accident a couple of years ago (not my fault/not my company) and the last thing the adjuster wanted was a picture of my official DOT VIN sticker the inspector put on when he checked it over and issued me the title. I got paid after that.

Gary

 

There is an easy fix for all of this.
Don't buy anything without a title that has numbers on the body/frame that match the numbers on that title in your hand.

If you bring vehicle from out of state in to IL, you are subject to a vin/serial numbers match inspection. Sometimes they want it even if it is titled in your name, but most certainly they want to inspect it if you (or someone else) is buying it and bringing it into IL, especially if the vehicle is coming from one of those no title, or easily titled states.

I don't care where you live, if you have a vehicle with "lost papers" you need to get with the program on getting it titled in your name as soon as possible. Days are coming where its going to get tougher every day, until one day it won't be able to get done.

Neither the States nor the fed gov want old cars on the road anymore. They don't meet modern emission or safety standards, and they can't monitor the electronics in them (except your phone). They are moving towards making things as difficult as possible to title stuff that has no paperwork. Gene

 

Georgia was one of the states that stolen cars were laundered though in the 70's. I know of at least two cars that were stolen off a convoy truck and registered in Georgia under bogus bills of sale when they were new. At that time in Central Texas there were so many late model cars running around with out of state plates that belonged to guys at Fort Hood that no one paid much attention except to say "Fort Hood boy".

 

Some years ago there was a "repair shop" that rebuilt wrecked cars. They would buy a wreck, then steal an identical car, swap the VIN number, sell the car, and scrap the wreck. It was pretty lucrative until someone looked at one of their rebuilds that was exactly like the car that was stolen from him a few weeks back...

 

Sounds like the "original" Gone In 60 Seconds" from the 70s when the lady saw her wrecked Challenger on the used car lot looking brand new a couple days later.

 

What Haven Hills Auto Club said about selling engines, frames, etc. is correct. several years ago a guy that I know in Mass. was building a model A coupe on 1932 a Ford chassis. He had sold the original model A engine to an engine rebuilder. 2 years later the guy gets a letter from the Motor Vehicle Registry telling him that his registration is invalid. Someone else had registered their model A using the number on the engine that he had sold. It took him 2 years to finally get things straightened out. In the meantime his coupe was off the road.

 

Yup. This does happen. Would you sell the vin tag off of your car? Thats what people do when the sell their frames, engines, and transmissions. If you sell them remove the numbers. Its actually a good idea to keep you block or trans because that is what your title is married too. Sucks for the guy needing an engine, but better to be safe than sell yours cars identity.

 

Use the title that goes with the frame as that's where the vin numbers are

 

Technically in Michigan, if you use a frame and body from two different vehicles, then by law it is an assembled vehicle and must be titled as a 2021+ and subject to inspection and is no longer considered a historic vehicle. Although it be more proper to use the title to the chassis, if you get pulled over in a coupe and its registered as a sedan it gives probable cause for a cop to inspect the vin. If the coupe is titled as a coupe questions are not asked unless sold to a different state. Personally in Michigan I would title the coupe as a coupe, but keep the original chassis title incase it gets sold. Have both titles in your name and kept together. Also keep any identifying parts as well. Its up to the owner to assess ones risk and use of the vehicle. Just my two cents.

 

Yup. No conspiracy theories required about these law changes.

They being driven by the insurance company lobby, trying to protect their market, nothing more.

It's about the money. It's always about the money.

That is why the laws changed in my state. That is why I don't do VIN(serial) inspections anymore.

 

THE LADY AT THE OHIO TITLE OFFICE TOLD ME, AND THIS IS A OFFCIAL PROCEDURE, IF YOU GOT RECIEPTS, AND BILLS OF SALE AND THE TITLE OFFICE WONT GIVE YOU A TITLE ,

YOU GO ( NOT A LAWYER) TO THE COUNTY COURT HOUSE, PAY $25 TO FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE COUNTY TITLE OFFICE, YOU GET A COURT DATE, TELL YOUR STORY TO THE JUDGE,
( MOST JUDGES WILL SIDE WITH YOU UNLESS YOUR STORY IS REAL B.S.) AND THEN YOU HAVE A COURT ORDER TO MAKE THE DMV GIVE YOU A TITLE