Ok, so I'm swapping an old 305 sbc into my 51 Ford Deluxe. The flathead was a worn out cracked disaster and I'm just mad about it. The good thing is I'm 49 and finally found myself in a position to own and work on a project car, so I'm ticking off bucket list items one-by-one and swapping an sbc into something is one of them. I'm nearing the point of having it look like a functioning car again and ready to start up. I have been trying to take inspiration from old hotrodders and moonshine runner builders by making available parts work and not just spending my way out of trouble (this makes for a lot of work). I picked up a starter from a local guy for $20 (Canadian!). He did a crate motor swap in his 1980 El Camino and could not use anymore. Anyway, it's a straight bolt pattern starter due to my 153 tooth flywheel. It mocks up fine into the engine with standard bolts. I get that you use specific knurled bolts to act as locators on the starters. Finding the right bolts is proving to be a challenge (see wrong one below). My question is in the starter shown below, for the short bolt, would I need a bolt with a knurl real tight to the head? Or no knurl necessary because the hole is a slot where it meets the block? Or a bolt with a long knurl that starts at the head and goes into the block (haven't found this available)? Thanks for any input. Oh, and also, my 305 shows no sign of having ever had a starter rear brace and the starter has no extended stud on the back. Do I run with no brace?
You can get by without the special bolt as long as the bolts fit tight in the starter housing…because this engine is probably nothing special…ie. no high compression or anything that would tax the starter the rear mount isn’t that important either. Just make sure the drive to flywheel mesh is correct…that’s the key factor.
I'd say you would be better off with the knurled bolts. They make at least 3 different lengths. A lot of times you can find them at your local Auto Zone, ect, on the row of pre-packaged odds and ends.
you need the right bolts...really.... although you can get away with out the brace. Are you sure that's the right starter? It should look like this, yours is different. Get parts from the parts store, not a buddy who has something that you don't really know what it is.
X's 2 on what squirrel said, especially about the starter itself. The one you have looks like it may have come off of a 2.8 v6 or something of that nature.
If the starter you have is just a later version that's smaller, and uses shorter bolts, then you really need to look up the application and find the right bolts for it. Some of them might not be available in the aftermarket, so you have to hit the salvage yards, or get a starter that you can get bolts for. Unfortunately I'm not up on all the permutations that were used in the 80s, 90s, etc. A quick look at rockauto shows some starters like that used in the 90s, but the short bolt is not available.
My starter was definitely in a 1980 305 sbc. My engine's an 86 to 88 block. His was an auto, I'm using a manual. No idea if the starter was OEM to the 1980 305. Since I have a 153 tooth I figured the straight bolt pattern starter was worth a shot. I'm not opposed to buying another starter and bolts, that's just how it goes sometimes. I'll have quite a collection of parts to sell/trade when I'm done. But... I saw theboss20's reply first and now I see everyone else's replies. So, your probably not going to approve of what I did this afternoon. I am using sbc starter bolts. They're just too long. From what I can tell I need 4" and 1.5" bolts and I'm not seeing them available. I turned spacers to get the cross hatch aligned to the proper spots. I torqued to 35 foot lbs. A 1/8" Allen key slides perfectly between the starter shaft and the OD of flywheel teeth. Is this a hard no? Thanks for the replies so far. Sometimes googling gets you 70% there but just not quite the answers you're looking for.
I installed a mini starter on a 70's-80's SBC and used the correct knurled starter bolts for a regular starter. One bolt was too long so I added a spacer so the knurl ended up in the correct spot ... worked fine for me. Near as I can recall, the spacer was roughly 1/2". When running a full size starter, I have always installed the brace. I realize you weren't suggesting otherwise but I too used a solid spacer, not stacked washers. Knurled starter bolts can be found at Canadian Tire (or used to be) in the red packaged "HELP" line of products. I believe they are a Dorman product.
Looks good to me. I think you understand how it all works, and are taking the care necessary to make sure it does work. rock on!
No, you don't need to shim for correct clearance (most of the time), but you should check for correct clearance. Use a 1/8" allen wrench between the shaft on the starter, and the outer edge of the ring gear. If it fits in the gap, but you can't turn it, then the clearance is correct. If it's too tight, add a full shim. If it's too loose, add half a shim to the outboard mounting surface. Shims go between starter and block.
I'd say your doing pretty good for your first project. Trying to use what ya got, check. Asking questions and doing research when things look off, check. Coming up with a solid solution when you need to, check. Good luck to you.
Good advice you have gotten. You need the correct bolts, starter and I highly recommend the brace. Do it right, once and done. Carry on.
Alright. Thanks everyone. I went back and re-checked the 1/8" spacing from starter shaft to flexplate tooth and I am too tight once I turned the flex plate a bit to get a tooth lined up right off the shaft. So, I'll get a shim kit. I'll have to think about a brace. Like I mentioned the starter itself has no extended stud on it to mount a brace. Seems like backing out the bolts to put a brace under them is not what the general intended. Thanks again for all the feedback!
I think Chevy gave up on the braces after a while...I don't bother with them any more, and don't have issues. I also don't run a lot of compression in my engines.
I am not sure a 305 ever had a brace…and many SBC starter used a short threaded extension to the through bolt…so you just un-threaded the through bolt and replaced it with a different one with the extension…sounds easy but there were probably eight different through bolts made over the years…
The full sized starters probably benefit from a brace in the earlier days. The past two starters I changed on an 86 and 89 block didn’t have one. The ‘89 has been in my possession since new. The smaller/mini ones I had to change I’d never seen a brace.
My policy for the front bracket has always been, if it's an aluminum nose I try to use a bracket, if it's a cast iron nose I may or may not. If it's a high compression/high performance application, I try to use a bracket. There are always exceptions but I shoot for a rock solid starter installation. Nothing worse than a car that won't start and crawling under your car in some nasty parking lot only to find your starter rattling around down there with a broken nose. I've seen some of the (imported) aftermarket starters with aluminum noses that are really thin, the factory ones are usually better.
To make things worse is their are metric versions of the bolts. Be sure to use correct starter bolts. An the brace. The brace will help keep the plug wires tucked in.
Been a while since I fooled with Chevy's, but from what I remember the long starters were the ones to have the nose brace, the short ones usually didn't. I seldom put them back on and never had any problems with either long or short starters.
My first starter change, in the car wash next to the NAPA, I’m 16 and the engine kicked back, busted the nose cone. Head over to NAPA and get a starter and change it with a 6 inch adjustable wrench I had in the glove box. Here’s the kicker, didn’t have money on me, so put it on my dads account. When he got home, told him he says “why didn’t you ask Ray or Jerry to borrow the tools”? Mercy, never thought about it.
In later years on the small and big block engines, Chevy switched to a mini starter (gear drive, permanent magnet). They use bolts with metric shanks, from the head of the bolt down to half way through the knurl, and the rest of the knurl and the threads are UNC 3/8-16. Yeah, you gotta be careful with the bolts...it's easy to get it wrong, and using bolts that are too long, or the wrong thread, can cause the corner of the block to break off when you run the bolt in. Then you're really screwed.
Dorman or Help should have the right starter bolts. NAPA probably has them in stock. In all my years of Chevy engines, I have only had to shim ONE starter. This was due to a wrong nose-cone that I had to use.
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