Hot Rods where's the money?

Some perspective, fortune 500 CEO average salary is $13M, that's reported salary and likely doesn't include stock options and how those are executed. Figure other high level members of those companies at $3-5M salary then whatever stock options.
A $500K car could be "part" of their bonus / profit sharing/ stock options for a year.

I personally don't have much interest in many of those cars, amazing execution, but sterile, usually very little of the actual car it's supposed to emulate. Resale - whatever I think part of the draw is those individuals can talk about their car build and how much they're spending through the process. Same with vacation house build, yacht build. It creates conversation. I'm assuming most of their contacts and "friends" are business related or only associated for social gains.

Awesome that it supports shops and enables high end talent to do what they do.

 

I don't look at it as work. I enjoy wrenching, it's most gratifying when everything comes together and it looks and runs well. If I didn't do most of the work, it wouldn't run and look as good as it does. Nobody is going to work on my car like I do.
I enjoy tuning suspensions and engines. I like the Chevrolet big block, Turb0 400 with Hurst Autostick I, in a 1959 to 1972 el Camino. The 68-72 years are some of the most well made cars to ever come down the assembly line.

In order to take a car to the level of all around street performance I enjoy and can afford, I did a lot of computer time and found the car that had everything I was looking for.
Strong frame, good suspension, lots of after-market parts, strong engine and transmission choices, looks and the most important, affordability.

 

One of the problems with this thread is that most home builders do not keep track of their time to build their car. I mainly work on average used cars. Sometimes I will do a little bit of work on a hot rod for someone.

The one I always remember is installing a tilt steering column on a '55 Ford truck. The customer drooped off the truck with a GM column. He wanted the ignition switch and turn signals wired to it. You can switch out that column in the car it came out of in an hour or so. It took most of a day to mount it nicely and most of the next day to wire it. ( this was before internet days, so I had to figure out each wire as I went along) Needless to say he was not exactly happy with a bill for 12 hours of work plus the materials needed to do the job.
I have always used that example to tell later customers why custom work costs so much.

 

not putting down any high dollar builders, the guy selling that coupe must be really well off to let the car go for 1/5th of what it cost to build, and it was only driven 12,000 miles.

I predict this thread will be shut down in 5..4..3..2..

 

Is it any less crazy to spend similar money for a rare comic book, MLB baseball, Star Wars figure, or pocket watch? Given the choice I'd still take the coupe with all its perceived flaws.

X2. My early builds have been itemized to the last dollar. Anymore - not so much. If my champ car needs wire wheels to be correct then by God, it will have the best I can afford, be they Dayton, Boranni, or whatever it takes to look and perform right. Keeping track of the costs is counterproductive to my enjoyment of our hobby.

 

He didn't. Because he couldn't.

 

The same applies to keeping track of mileage on a multi-day road trip.

 

One Quart Epoxy Primer, Hardener and reducer. 01/24/22 California. I asked about a gallon of P.P.G-DP40...$ 520.00

 

These two quotes exactly express my sentiments..............

That said, we also need the big buck guys with their big buck builds, because all those guys also operate in the circles that deal with business and government regulation. I'd hate to think where our sport would be without the heavy hitters......probably legislated out of existence.

I'm glad they have their niche and bragging rights, and I have my niche and don't need to brag about it.

 

Man, for me, I'm not offended or worried about the money, not that I have 250k to drop on a car, I don't. But I was drawn to this hobby not really for coolness level of cars, but because I like old stuff. I like working on it and getting dirty. Figuring out how to repair some issue. Honestly, I wouldn't have interest in that car at any price, and I don't care who built it.

It's not old....

 

Probably paying plenty for 5 to 10 guys sitting around eating sandwitches. HAHAHAHahahah!!!!

 

I love this topic.

I hate this topic.

I didn't read every reply, and no offense but sometimes it just becomes the same messages, pro and con, just in different words or even accents. It also raises a question when you get into these pro built cars and shops. Is it any different building "our cars" than it is doing a nearly 100% all new bling-bling? No. In fact, fuck no. An hour is an hour. So pro-built inc gets a new wiper system from "We're really just secret junk importers" vs the other one, and he scoured Hershey for years and has a shit ton of gennie parts in his stash. The gennie shit needs work to be reliable and it might take 1/2 a day to become worthy parts, and that's IF he can source stuff to rebuild and doesn't have to stand at the bench fabricating the minutia. The new system won't work with the OG parts, and in fact won't work with the rest of the new shit just to be able to have wipers at all. So pro-built STILL spends hours at the bench cussing and disgusted at the lack of consistancy and standardization within the new stuff, but maybe gets a personal smile when the old parts are ready for service. Who pays for that time? The customer does. Add it to the bottom line of hours. This also where a correct reference can be made about "our cars" being the subject of actual restoration vs rod building. I've done both, a totally non-HAMB street rod and lots of restoration (my daily job for decades). The difference for us is that 1 job sends you home satisfied and the other sends you home feeling like you wasted time. Building that new car was the same feeling I had watching the last 1/2 of the movie "Jackass" (although I admit the golf course gig was funny). A measure of wasted time and even a little shame. Restoration feels like watching "North By Northwest" or "American Graffiti" again. That aside time is time is time. What does the shop owe the client? Quality, integrity, the will to back up his work, service beyond the sale sometimes, and more that's too lengthy to get in to. Add overhead into your hourly rate, cost of employees, legal extortions from local regulations (sorry, had to say it), and amortizing the expenses of machines and tools. With 2 employees my shop costs $70/hr just to unlock the door and turn the lights on. If I add a modest income for me it's higher yet. And here we are with old stuff, and who can raise a right hand and say every nut and bolt came right off, all the seat springs were perfect, the engine didn't need anything, the wiring was clean and pliable. Anyone? You there in the back. No? Didn't think so. Season this life with a few neredowells who's goal is to fuck as many as they can before they get caught, painting all of us with that broad brush sometimes. Life behind the 8 ball. There's easier ways to make a living but if you're not a shoe cobbler, chef, lawyer, doctor or nurse, carpenter, etc, and this is what you do, just embrace it and find the rewards where you can.

Good work ain't cheap, cheap work ain't good. If this sounds really negative overall that wasn't my whole intent. Sometimes it's good to understand the laundry list of challenges in this business. Frankly all forms of biz have them. We also have a small salon and it too has it's highs and lows. My regular foible? My boss. I see him every day, over the top of my bathroom sink. Fuckin dickhead...

 

^^^^^ The reason I posted money in the toilet is this.

I was once asked "wouldn't it be exciting if I submitted your car to Overhaulin?" To which I said NO!

What one get's when turning over their vehicle and answering question aimed at having you believe your getting what you want is false (no matter the builder).

 

Interesting thread, but I gotta say..

Reading a post from the Highlander is a treat.
Spot on, AFAIK, as usual.
His perspective is always welcome.

 

This too is a foible. As a pro you owe an honest description of things and a sincere understanding of whatever process you're getting involved in. I demand customer involvement for this and other reasons. Hell 1/2 the juice is the process, and I even give them "homework" sometimes so their involvement is rewarding too. Find us this, look up that, etc. That new car I spoke of gave him EVERYTHING he wanted. I also learned that with some folks you can't offer too many possibilities. Too big a menu and sometimes they can't choose. I must have 15 or more yellow pearl color panels. "What if we..." and "Can we try..." We ended up with one from the 1st 3 sprayouts. Also, sometimes they don't want to be bothered by how well you attach a wiring harness or why you decided to plumb the fuel system like you did. They just want to trust you did it well and likely don't understand all the reasons. Sometimes too they don't really know what they want beyond the broad strokes. "I want a black 32 Ford hiboy 5W." "What engine? Cloth, vinyl or leather interior? Wires, steel, mags? Whitewalls or blackwalls? Chrome chassis parts or painted? New or old suspension design? Should we buy a chassis or build a gennie?" Just because I don't like sushi...

 

there's tons of expensive cars on the road in California. everywhere you look you see a $100,000+ car next to you.

 

I build "purrfect" cats.

 

Granted this car won the Ridler award in 2007 but here is how you spend a fortune on a car build.
"We spent over 25,000 hours over two years working on this car," said Trepanier, who credits his 18-member crew with helping create a unique roadster.

"We had people working 24-hour days during the week before the show."
I also heard that there was over 1,000 hours of buff time on this build,

 

Was there any paint left ?

I mean, thats 25 solid weeks of buffing................... almost half a year !

 

We had 8-10 guys averaging 70 hours a week for 3 months on 1 car.
That’s an estimated 400k to 500k worth of labor at just $60 per hour
Now add parts and materials.
One guy put close to 40 hours on 4 tires. That’s $2400 just prepping tires. They were sanded/polished smooth. All mold marks removed, both sides and threads Then each thread was cleaned with a q-tip then tire dressed. Then bagged for the show.

 

From my understanding they buff every piece including bolt heads etc.

 

Ever cut and buffed a u-joint?

 

You make that sound weird

 

It does sound weird.
Our painter made spray out cards not to match paint but so our machinist could measure paint thickness. That way my boss knew how much to remove off each suspension bolt. Each one had exactly 2 threads showing
The bolts were custom cut the plated. Wonder what the price was just for bolts

 

Each to their own. You make the money, you want to show it off? Sure. Can't do it yourself? Have no urge to? Just want to experience driving the image? Sure. Drop the money in and damn well enjoy it.
Even if it's "living this car more than life itself" and "just wiping it down with a diaper".

That won't change. Pick an Omega, a Rolex. I wear a Casio that's just as accurate. Pick a yacht. I hate boats. Pick a Lear Jet. I know how it works and enjoy understanding the physics.

What I'm getting at is I enjoy building and creating something myself, and that something is the physical entity of the car itself. Someone who has built and created a business where people pay them significant sums for their services has done just that but in a different avenue. That creativity spawns the capability to have the shiny toy in the shop window. More power to them.

I am content sitting on the fender and nodding that yes, I rebuilt the broken bits, no it's not the original paint, and no, not a V8 under the hood.
If I could build a multi million dollar empire I would farm some of the work out to a reputable builder, too. Changes the perspective a little. Money likes to move around.

Phil

 

Brizio is in the San Francisco Bay Area. I could drive down there in about 25-minutes, give-or-take.

They have a shop full of exceptionally talented craftspeople, each of whom must be paid an appropriate wage for the locality. Benefits cost money, too.

Six-figure salaries are perfectly normal here, and that is what real estate and other cost-of-living expenses are based on.

They have to cover rent, utilities, taxes, permits, etc.

Do you all see where this is going? It adds up to a high shop bill rate, and it ain't $60/hr!

I won't leave the couch for $60.

For those who like math, $60/hr based on a 52 paid weeks (some as vacation/sick pay) is $124,800. That would barely be competitive pay here, and that is just the pay. Tack on the benefits package, and enough to cover overhead, and you are likely well over double that, if not more, and that is just the hourly rate.

 

Money is worthless if you don't spend it. Lol

 

Around here a $500k home is a run down fixer upper on a postage stamp size lot. You probably need to add another zero to that figure.

 

Hence my huge disc brakes.

 

$500K home. That's funny.

Over here we have $1.5-2.0M properties, for either a comical "one wall renovations" or complete tear-down for the land alone.