I like the looks of it, but to me it doesn’t really do much except for a compression load. It makes it nice for mounting fuel lines. Could you just lay a couple of pieces of tubing on the frame and tack them to keep it from moving? Sort of like when you chop a car?
I’ve seen a 32 body that struggled to fit an unboxed original frame. Measured a couple cars and the difference on rocker width was substantial.
Your right, I would Not use a T frame for anything with real H.P. and sticky tires. You do it your way, I'm fine with that.
If you want to do it right, you need a "frame" of reference to work from. That would be a flat steel table that you can temporarily weld brackets to. Not all concrete floors are flat even though they "look" flat and things roll easily. You also can't brace things to prevent movement. I would say the short welds have less tendency to warp and thats the best way. Periodically I would take a torch and heat the frame and boxing about an inch or so wide and let it cool while its still restrained. Probably do that in a couple places on each rail and then let it cool. That should remove most stress and relieve any movement. If thats done several times during the weld process, stress should never get to the point of being out of hand. Little stress.....little relief......weld some more. Have some little reference points at each end of the frame and the middle of the frame that you can verify once you have released the frame from its bracing. Then if its off, tack it to the braces again and apply some heat and hydraulic pressure to adjust it. I know that lots of people have welded lots of frames with nothing to align or restrain them and had no problem............but not everyone had no problem doing it that way. So the law of averages says that some will be OK and some won't. All anyone can do is try to insure they do the best they can with what they have.
Used to square & level out Model A frames on jack stands, set an engine block on each end, and go to town welding in plates with 6011. Always came out good; but I evidently missed the memo that it wouldn't work.
When restoring a T frame ,most times the frame will be bent where the back of the motor and transmission ,mount to the frame , 20hp and all that torque will bend it .
Here is a "T" frame powered by a 180 hp flathead. I boxed all, but a small section at the rear. I would have boxed it all, but it's in a Belly Tank that gets very narrow at the rear, and I needed the room for clutch and shift linkage. BTW, I stick welded it, for authenticity.
At first glance at what appears to be Rivet holes in the side rail and the tapper of them I would have guessed the Frame to have started life as a Model A. None of the T frames I have display the 3 hole pattern like the Running board brackets or Cowel mount tab of the Model A uses. None the less your fabrication skill level puts you Head and Shoulders above the average home builder.
Something a 77 year old working blacksmith once told me about welding any thickness of metal , is that heat always shrinks, ALWAYS !!!
Kool, if you want to do that program again contact me. I have some in the Barn that are pretty nice also. I don't ever plan to use them.
I am a mechanical engineer and my opinion is that it does not need to be fully welded. Look at it this way you are boxing the frame to eliminate twisting and to stiffen it up. How much twisting can happen when the welds are spaced a few inches apart? I say a 1" bead 4" apart is more than enough to get the desired results of a boxed frame. Fixturing a frame while welding does not eliminate the stresses created by the excessive heat of a weld. These stresses are what cause a frame to move once it is unleashed from the fixture. I say a fully welded boxed frame is just for looks and causes harm and not much good.
Ive wondered if having the boxing plate laser cut similar to this would add the same/similar strength with less weight. Solid plating always seemed like a waste of metal to me
Anthony- I dont think you lose much if any structural integrity with a boxing plate design like that. If weight savings is the goal then I say go for it. I like the visual design of it also but if it isn't seen then that may be more work that desired. Also there have been many cars built where the boxing plates were added only where necessary to avoid frame twist. A fully boxed frame all the way to the back is not necessary for a simple SBC swap into a vintage A chassis......for a street car/cruiser.
To get any real world advantage from mass reduction, the concept has to be applied to the whole car. Only dedicated stripping of weight throughout the entire vehicle will give any benefit worth the effort........Big job. And you are correct, the real skill is to be lighter without sacrificing strength. If you can be lighter with more structural integrity, you have truly mastered the art... Nice pens by the way. Did you have a recent birthday ???
I like the looks of that method. Ionia did it on my 32 chassis and I always liked that (their frames are art!). So, that carried over to my A chassis.
The architect in me is thinking, good: any water which manages to get in can get out again. But you'll need to paint the inside thoroughly, so you'll need a process which will get at the back of that plate. Powder-coating will in theory, but not always in practice. Hot-dip galvanizing certainly will, but your frame might come out of the bath twice as heavy and shaped like a pretzel. You might also get coccoons and wasp nests inside your rails, which might be OK on some builds and not on others.
Thinking like an architect again: you'd need to block capillary wicking of water through the unwelded portions, with some kind of stable filler. That should go on thin enough to wick in instead.
I'm not sure if frame flex was ever considered an actual suspension function, but rather an inevitability which needed to be accommodated if a frame is to survive any amount of use. In other words, I don't believe anyone ever set out to make a frame floppy, but instead recognized that making it stiff enough to achieve the ideal of accommodating all suspension movement in the springs would entail prohibitive expense, weight, and bulk. Accepting that a frame is going to flex then shifts the problem to making sure that it can do so without breaking. Early Ford frames could be a lot lighter than those of other marques because the lateral location of the axles by the spring shackles alone accommodates around 3½° of self-correcting roll rotation unresisted by the springs. That meant that there could be up to about a 7° angle between the front and rear axles, as seen from the front or rear, before any twist is imparted to the frame. That's a lot: a single-wheel bump of almost 7½". I did an analysis of that here. When Ford began to add rear Panhard bars ("track rods") and antiroll bars that free articulation was lost, necessitating heavier frames. Of course, roads were a lot better by then.
This method is how I prefer to do mine. I also have a 4 x 8 steel table I tack the frame to before I weld in the plates and they will still have a bit of movement when I cut it loose when I’m done.
No wasps or cocoons when ya drive em a lot. The inside can be treated easily with a 360* nozzle on a flexible wand.
1) need an accurate enough layout to check it the frame is straight to begin with, this is old stuff. 2) once you straighten the frame, the body may not fit it anymore after sagging on a crooked frame or being disassembled for years. Be ready for that one. 3) get the frame straight, then start boxing, and ensure it stays straight, need a way to accurately measure before and after. Large metal table or rails with known points is one method. Steel table can be used to weld / clamp the frame to it, but heat will still move it around. 4) plan on how to straighten the frame when you're done, despite all efforts to keep it straight while boxing can you make pulls on the frame? 5) F It. Weld it up and make the crooked body fit the crooked frame, hopefully they lean the same direction, then fight all the gaps and door openings. Lots of ways to accomplish it based on what equipment you have. Having the plan and equipment capability to get the frame back to "true to the world" is needed regardless.
Bought this A frame from a guy that ran an altered 26 T . Was going to build another car but money became a hurdle .Should have bought the early hemi with it . A bit overkill for the 37 flathead I have planed for it ,but the price was right .Couldn't buy an A frame and the boxing plates for what I paid . 3/16 boxing plate ,lightening holes , welded to outside edges of frame and rounded over to same radius as original . Looks like it came from factory. Boxing plays are welded as in picture
Makes you wonder why all those rod shops waste all that money on frame jigs and Mig/Tig welders........huh?
Ive used 3/16 as well. But mainly so we could tap holes to secure small stuff like brake lines and wiring.
Hey; those 1-800 parts need fancy TIG welding, you know. Thinking a lot of the frames and components are put together by production welders making repetitive pieces. Some may be hot rodders; but not necessarily so.
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