Hot Rods How do you guys go about getting a title/ paperwork for a car that doesn’t have any? (California)

Welcome to property taxes.

That's how they work.

 

That's just it. Without it, nobody owns the car, because without the title, legally it is not a car.

It's yard art.

Cars are things that can be operated on public roads. For that they must have registration (and insurance). For registration, you must acquire legal title.

I know that this is not the case in all states, but California is a TITLE STATE.

 

A whole lot of people have asked me why California is such a PITA to get a title in.

They don't get it, because they are looking at it from a benign perspective.

If these "work arounds" folks sometimes suggest actually worked, you could easily use one to put someone else's car through what we euphemistcly call "an involuntary change in ownership".

GTA is a felony. There is an established process for doing this correctly, and is published publicly.

Circumventing it solidifies intent.

 

Are you saying you have commercial plates on your '29 and are paying weight fees? I was under the impression that 1934 and earlier p/u's in CA didn't require weight fees. Has this changed your was I wrong in the first place? Just wondering.

 

1. Use the regulations applicable to your state and situation.
2. when in doubt refer to number 1.
workarounds are seldom effective legal options. Your results may vary.

 

I have PC YOM plates

 

Makes sense now.

 

It's a good point. I edited my post to reflect the reason.

 

Fee (not fees) yes, taxes no.

There is a secondary registration status in California called Planned Non-Operation (PNO). We just call it "non-op". You are not required to maintain insurance in this status. As such, there are hefty fine associated with operating in this status, including tow and impound.

That status keeps your record current, and allows you to immediately go back to operation by just paying for that portion of the year's operation.

There is a fee for the service of having a record maintained by the DMV systems. This is more than fair to assign to the vehicle owner, rather than the average taxpayer. User pays. Non-user does not pay.

It is a real mystery why more people do not put their vehicles in PNO. It can be done online, with no trip to the DMV, and if you pay it before the current registration runs out, or immediately on vehicle purchase, it is a HEFTY $21.00! ($23 if you're late)

That is not even an annual fee. It is one time, until you want to drive it.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handb...nned-non-operation-certification-pno-reg-102/

The whole no title, and no paperwork thing is so impossibly easy to avoid here, yet still so many people manage to have paperless cars!

 

Do the Vermont Loophole. I did it on a off topic motorcycle and worked like a charm.

 

Did you not read my post?

The vehicle likely will get flagged, and will need to get inspected by California Highway Patrol (CHP).

That is the same thing that needs to happen to get it back into the system, just with a whole lot of extra expense and hassle.

 

Not sure why being inspected by CHP would be such a bad thing?

The Vermont loophole checks for all cars on the stolen car list, it will not work for cars with a salvage title ...
The average guy here wants to build a pile of iron that when it was made the pile never had a title to begin with.

The Vermont loophole simply allows a registration of vehicles 15 years or older.
It is a bit sneaky, in the way that you do not have to live there to register your car & receive plates for it.

Seriously, if someone has a stolen car .... I hope they get locked up for life.
If a car was reported stolen 7-10 years ago, you going to get caught trying to use the Vermont loophole.

Now it is possible you drag a shell out of the woods & it was stolen back in the past, 50 years ago.
Now what is the moral opinion on getting a title for that car? .... Just saying.
It will not show up on the stolen car list, do we let it rot because it was stolen 50 years ago ... or get a title & build it .... what would the previous owner want?
Too me this is why the Vermont loophole exist.

Other people suggest getting a title company or a middle man to do something we can do ourselves.
They are using the same loopholes in different states ... but they know how to get the title.
Why not cut out the middleman & do it yourself?

The thing with CHP wanting to inspect it ... Give it to them & let them inspect it. If it is stolen lets find out! .... The Vermont loophole already proved it was not stolen. if you have a registration & plates from Vermont. You have a clear car.

 

Any time you sell a motor vehicle in CA, the seller has to submit a Transfer of Ownership Certificate to DMV. Among the information that must be included is the SELLING PRICE. The buyer will have to pay sales tax, based on that amount. It is a common practice, however, for the buyer to request that the seller write down an amount that's sig less than the actual purchase price. If the price is considerably less than Fair Market Value, it could be questioned. There is no tax when a vehicle changes hands between family members, but there's always a transfer fee.

 

It's similar here, only if you park one, you have to turn in the tag and you lose what's left on that year's registration if you don't go back and reregister it before the year runs out. No fees to let one sit as long as it's not driven on the roadway, none charged when you go back and register it again, only that year's or partial year's regristration, whichever it may be. It will still be on file so it can be registered again, but I don't know how long they keep the records. Insurance is not required on parked non running vehicles, but if registered and tagged they must have liability. Doesn't matter on non titled vehicles how many times it changes hands as long as it wasn't on the road, titled vehicles are different, we are supposed to note and sign the back of the title every time it changes hands, driven or not, but few do. Most get the first signed transfer from the owner, then never sign the title until they get ready to register it or they sell it.

It's just the way different states do it. You live there, you play by their rules. I'm ok with that.
And a fee is the same as a tax. Just another name for it, fees are generally paid by individuals, taxes are paid by almost everybody, except maybe homeless and freeloaders! We pay an "Inspection" fee every time we buy a quart of oil. It's just another name to make a tax inconspicuous. If you don't buy oil, you don't have to pay the tax, or fee.

 

It's supposed to be that way here, too, but I've never heard of them questioning a purchase price. I guess if you put down you paid $200 for a nearly new Ferrari, they would give you the stinkeye and tell you to get your figures straight!

 

I don't think this is accurate. I don't think the seller MUST submit a Transfer of Ownership, but it IS a good idea, because if you don't, and the new owner doesn't transfer the title himself, than as far as the state knows the car still belongs to you; and if it is involved in an accident, or something else, the state will consider you the responsible party and it will be on you to prove you no longer own it. So you can, and you probably should, but you don't have to. Nobody is going to come looking for you if you don't, and there are no penalties for not doing it.

 

Years ago, our tag stayed with the car when you got rid of it. It was up to the new owner to get it transferred to their name. I traded a car in on a pickup at a Chevy dealer, they in turn sold the car, the guy never transferred it to his name. Later, that car was used in a robbery, guess who's name came up when they ran the tag? Yup, mine! I knew a few of the local cops, they knew it wasn't me because I didn't fit the description of the perp, a black male. I found out about it after the fact, was glad I wasn't in town when it happened!

A few years later they changed the law, the tag now stays with the owner and gets transferred to the next vehicle. Now my lilly white ass won't be a suspect in a robbery in a vehicle I no longer own!

 

One good thing now in CA, you can do the notice of transfer and release online, and when you do it gives you a timestamp, so you can show the transfer occurred before the new owner leaves your driveway

 

I live in So Cal and just started to go through this program. If you have any, I say ANY paperwork, old registration, pink slip it can be done. If you have no paperwork at all you will need the VIN verified. DMV or CHP only. No longer city pd, sheriff, etc. The outfits that can help you for money still will need the vin verified, possibly a photo or rubbing of it, so you may have to load it on a trailer and take it to them, (DMV/CHP). They will want to see the car, not just the frame anymore. Docent need to run, just completely resemble a car. Fun with Old Cars!

 

Curious how they handle an AD series pickup, they never had a vin number or indeed any number on the frame. They
were usually registered by the engine number, or sometimes by the serial number on the cab door frame. How many
70 year old trucks have the original engine and the serial number plate was held on by clutch head screws.

 

If the car is "out of the CA DMV system", you will still need to get the VIN verified, even if you do have an old CA pink slip or registration.

 

Correct, mostly.

This is why I gave up my private verifier business and dropped my bond.

If your vehicle is out of the system, you will need to have the VIN verified. There are no exceptions.

The only change in this is who can do the verification. If you have paperwork, one of the other entities (private verifier, cop, etc.) can do it. If you don't have "supporting documents" it still MUST be verified, but can only be done by the DMV or CHP.

 

I don't know why I have to explain this over and over, but every single vehicle has a VIN. VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number. Yes, they became standardized to a 17-digit alphanumeric code in 1981.

Prior to that, every single other pervious combination of numbers and/or letters is still a VIN!

From vehicle registration #1, to now, every single vehicle has some sort of VIN.

As for inspection in California, you will need to present a vehicle with a permanently attached, stamped, or on the plate, to the DMV or CHP.

If on the engine or frame, it must be stamped.

If on a tag, the stamping must be the factory stamping, without exception, and must be attached by the original means., whatever means that might be.

Every single DMV, or what it is called in whatever respective state, has access to either the giant book, or the digital version of that same book, that shows every single location, stamping/engraving type, and attachment methodology of every single vehicle identifier, of every vehicle ever sold in the US.

If you have something present that varies from that, expect an impound.

If you have no numbers, there is a process for getting a VIN assigned, but it involves you bringing a whole lot of supporting paperwork to prove out how you manage to be in possession of a vehicle with no identifying marks.

This is not a California thing. Any state that has a process that is less than this could allow someone to steal someone's car.

Now, if you decide to move a identification plate from one vehicle to another, for the purposes of changing the identity of a vehicle, for nefarious purposes, or not, you have committed the Federal felony of VIN tampering, and the judge won't care that it is not 17-digits, or 12, or, 5, unless you do so under the direct supervision of, and following the exact procedure as described in your respective state's laws.

18 U.S. Code § 511 will have you checking the "felony conviction" box on job applications, and can get you up to 5-years in jail.

 

A private verifier, or a cop can do the verification if there is a matching "supporting document".

If there are no supporting documents, and those MUST be state issued, then it needs to go to DMV, with discretion to go to CHP, if they deem it necessary.

 

Last year I gave a car to a buddy in need. I thought I’d double down. Mailed in the transfer paper, and also did it on line.
Two months later I get a notice in the mail about late fees, etc and what it now (then) cost to register it. Seems my “buddy” just took the car and drive it.
Anyways, phone call to dmv wound up with me having to go in, show my ID and do the affidavit thing in person.
Ya, Ca DMV is easy

 

I know how easy it is in Vermont. What does an out of stater use for an address for the registration. Your not going to get a title if its 15 years and older, and what about insurance. Do they care if it's reg. in one state and garaged in another? Is it going to be a nitemare if it's in an wreck? Don't know, just asking. I had my 46 reg in Vt when i lived there and when i moved to Fl. it was a piece of cake to get it titled and reg.

 

I did, but my OT bike had to be inspected by Minnesota. Easy peasy when you got a free and clear title. Anyway, do it or don't, I do not really care just trying to be helpful.