Technical DIY hydraulic suspension ?

Hey if this is O/T I get it.

anyways , thinking this week as I’m doing a big clean up of the shop , and finding all kinds of “ junk” that we saved as it’s “ good junk”

I got to thinking of a diy hydraulic suspension set up.

I have multiple 24volt hydraulic pump set ups with manifolds and electric dump and lift solenoids .

I can either use a single acting cylinder on all 4 corners . So I can raise the vehicle and lower would simply be releasing hydraulic fluid from the cylinder. The cylinders would be off if 8000 lbs capacity ride on walkies with roughly 6-8” of movement .

or I could use dual action cylinders off of tilt cylinder so I can hydraulically raise and lower the suspension .again 6-8” of movement .

I have a few Hydrasmooth ac***ulators so I would still have suspension ( look them up they are basically shock absorbers for the hydraulic system .)

I would do a double shear set up on both ends to mount it with a spherical bearing and pins so there would be some movement on the ends .

there would be no hopping , dancing or three wheeling , just the ability to raise and lower the suspension at will .

am I drinking the cheap stuff , or is this possible ?

 

I’m in
Hydros predate the 327
I’ve always been intrigued with this ride

I guess somewhere around late 58.
https://kustomrama.com/wiki/Hydraulics#The_Fabulous_X54_or_The_X-Sonic.3F_Who_Was_First.3F

 

Personal opinion here. I understand all the Low Rider stuff. Have done some of it for Customers. Wasn't my thing and went back to my comfort zone and is why I'm here. I don't think it so much Off Topic but think there should be a different section for it on its own. Good luck deciding how and what to do with all your pieces. If they were mine, it would all just be for sale. If you want them Low, build them low. Laying frame just seems silly to me. Again, just a personal opinion.

 

Didn’t Citroën have that type set up?

 

I vote static drop only. Do you really want to add the complexity and maintenance (not to mention alignment issues) of a push ****on suspension?

 

I like this set up , looks like you would still end up with a smooth ride

 

I don’t ***ociate hydros with laying frame.
It’s giving the man the finger.

as for DYI, one of the first used port-a-power rams and a hand pump.

 

And I’m just tossing around this idea as I found all this valuable junk at work that most likely getting tossed or traded in as cores to our supplier .

just an idea at this point

 

You can totally do it, and you should.

If anyone says that it is OT, then the don't know the history of Kustoms in the US.

I have been building cars with hydraulics since before I moved to the West Coast, still do, and was even working on one yesterday (on a fender, anyways, but I built the ch***is).

Static drop is for people that live on flatlands. I live on the coast, and static drop would leave me stranded at the grocery store, and on many city streets.

If anyone is giving you a ration of **** for this, ignore them.

If you are not finding the answers that you seek, feel free to reach out.

 

Thanks @gimpyshotrods .

my question is , I know the pumps will work, the lift and lowering valves will work.

like I said this is just to have adjustable suspension .
No funny stuff

One thing I’m hung up on is a single acting cylinder or dual acting cylinder ?
Which would be better ?

another question is , with hydraulics should it only “ lift “ the suspension ? Will I need to build the suspension to its lowest point ?

or somewhere in the middle and then raise or lower from there ?

 

I’d build it at the desired ride height. Figure out how low you need it beyond that while setting it up as well as the lift needed

 

Single-acting cylinders. The weight of the vehicle will bring it back down.

Pumps put fluid in, dumps let it back into the reservoir.

You will need to make sure that your suspension is capable of not only traveling to the desired low height, but also being capable of being operated at the low height you expect to operate it.

That cup can be at the end of the rod with the spring away from the cylinder body (typical front arrangement) going to the control arm, or it can be on the cylinder body, with the spring concentric with the cylinder body, going back to the frame (typical rear arrangement).

Common front (hard to take a photo of):



Common rear, floating cylinders. In this case they extend into the trunk. That's not necessary with "regular" lowering and travel:

 

Floating cylinders in the rear require clearance.

 

Commonly front, non-floating cylinders are obviously fixed-mount. This can be done in the rear, too:

 

Cylinders for this intended purpose are not overly expensive: https://www.hopposonline.com/hydraulic-cylinders/

Nor are spring cups: https://www.hopposonline.com/cups/

In the case that your shock absorber is concurrent with coil springs, they would need to be relocated. Also, since you are extending suspension working range, you will most certainly need a longer travel shock absorber. That alone would necessitate new mounts, even if not concurrent with a coil.

 

I just noticed this.

This is not how this works. If you tried it you would NOT have appreciable/acceptable suspension.

For your height change only application, you would need to retain same/similar rate springs, and shock absorbers.

 

I’ve never seen a hydro set up retaining shocks .

hydraulics are not overly popular up here .

I have driven in 2 hydraulic setups , both could dance and drive on three wheels etc etc .

the ride was rough , that’s why thinking about the hydro smooth to add a “ shock absorber” if you want to call it that .

to be clear , the ride was bouncy and rough , like a car with extremely cut springs and stock height shocks or struts , but the cars handled and steered well

 

I have 10 inch cylinders with the springs cut in half to be able to drop the car. I run 2 batteries to control the height of the car (It`s slow moving). Front and back controls. It rides good as I have put over 75 thousand miles on the car since it was installed. Many long distance trips. Rides good. I leave the back down a bit more the front. No shocks are used up front. 15 inch wheels with radials.

 

My set up was installed 35 years ago. I was a bit younger then. I run two pumps. Only problem was the A-arm eventually wallered out at the pivot point a few years back. I drove it another 125 miles today.

 

Any pics of systems installed ?

the two cars I rode in had the cylinders in place of the shocks.
Probably why they rode as stiff as they did .

 

Leave the frontend half-way up. The spring still has some bounce to it. It`ll provide a good ride. My car has the factory big block 427. <<<<<

 

I put shocks on everything that is not a hopper.

I will not build a vehicle with a license plate and no shock absorbers.

I refuse to negotiate this position. I can not only computer-model the instantaneous loss of control, I have seen it happen on the proving grounds. Without a cage and a pro driver, it would have been a fatality.

Don't do it. It is not safe. Anyone that has not stacked it into a ditch is simply lucky.

Luck is not a sound survival strategy, and a single point is not a data set.

 

Can't comment on hydraulic suspensions, just no experience. Clearly possible, but how about air bags as an alternative. I've used them in light trucks as helpers, lots of big loads carried on semis every day,

Seems to me that very light shorter springs and air bags could accomplish the adjustable height suspension fairly easily.

Of course that doesn't use your 'good junk'.

 

If you want to do it, I'd say "go for it". Its no different than any other later model stuff we use as long as its hidden in the build. I was at a rod run yesterday, and happened upon a "rat rod". What I have noticed with rat rods is that many people try to use as much goofy stuff as they can and often consider poor quality work to be part of the "allure".............But lately I have seen some rat rods that deserved a closer look. I saw one at the SRN that someone had put a ton of money into it as well as a lot of originality. I could not post its picture because it wasn't Hamb friendly with its electronic fuel injection. It had a Big Block Chevy with a roots supercharger like I have never seen before. It also had nitrous. I'm sure it had hydraulics somewhere but I couldn't really tell. It just sat too low to drive. In the front, it had an extremely small radiator...bout what you would expect in a Civic.........so it couldn't possibly have cooled the engine. Must have had some additional cooling somewhere. I saw bungs welded into the bottom of the radiator and hoses running under the engine.
Looking further, the whole car was actually pretty well done if someone took the time to look it over.
So, at the rod run yesterday, I saw a rat rod Model A sedan sitting on the ground. Now I don't care for the "laying frame" thing, but hyd or air bags can be useful for maybe a little extra clearance when needed. This particular car had used the front crossmember as a hydraulic tank. Never seen anyone do that before, but I don't know much about what the hydraulic guys do. Just thought it was a pretty novel idea.

So I would say, exercise your creativity and do what makes your car more driveable and enjoyable.

 

There is no need to combine springs with air bags.

You can use just the air bags.

 

So , the rear of my 40 merc has already been converted to parallel leaf springs.

Easy enough, I think .

I can easily go another 2” in the rear . So I could take out a leaf or two.
install the hydraulic cylinders on the axle tubes , by the shocks and at that point either lower or raise the rear .

the front is still stock 40 ford set up,

so could I either install longer shackles , remove a leaf or 2 or would I have to paint up and do a drop axle or a mustang 2 set up ?

and I get what your saying @gimpyshotrods about utilizing shocks , like I said the 2 rides I was in with no shocks where bouncy .

 

I could see a static front and lifts on the rear
A stretched front axle/ reverse eye spring or playing with leafs could handle the front.
The gmc I’m sourcing parts for will be similar.
Drop leaf’s and shorter hangers up front.
I want it lower in the rear. I’ll probably do an air lift set up over leaf.
I can keep the rear low but raise or add load capacity to maintain that rear height.
Air Lift has been around longer than hydros.
Not using it to “lay frame” but to manage being a low truck.

 

Anything ever come of this?

 

I think he dodged the question.

 

I don’t have a dog in this hunt but if you constructed a system like Vandenplas illustrates and it would operate slowly I would be all for it. Retaining a ride on springs but adjusting the ride height without “jumping or hopping” would be desirable. I don’t want a car to sit on the frame when parked or ride like rigid Harley.