chevy II 153 four cylinder

Any truth to the rumor, that the marine cross flow head was some form of modified Ford 460 head??

 

Nope not for this mercruiser. Totally different engine

 

There is another Mercruser 4 that is basically 1/2 of a Ford 460 and uses a 460 head. It is bad ass and rare but has nothing to do with these GM 4s. There is a thread about them here somewhere.

 

I thought you guys would love to see the monster I'm working on. No I am not a hot rod guy. My family has been involved in open wheel racing since 1953. My grandfather owned a machine shop for over 50 years and did a ton of innovations for the sbc. In 1982 my father dabbled with a midget for a couple years. He took a 181 engine, welded the water jacket up on the deck, drilled the deck for a sbc head, and laid the engine flat in the car. Fast forward 40 years later, I'm rebuilding the engine with a modern twist. Rather than a factory sbc head I am using a Barnes down draft sbc head and a modern dry sump system. Unfortunately I lost my father in a racing crash in 1989, my grandfather do to dementia in 2019 and my step father who owned the engine shop that my sprintcar engines were built in passed away in April. At this point I think it would be easier find the lost Ark of the Covenant than peicing this thing together. I'm trying to not make all the same mistakes learning to build this as my father did. He built two of them. One as a vertical engine, and one as a horizontal. Unfortunately, I have the vertical. So trying to guess all the problems that will arise from it being nearly flat has been. I'll try and post more later. Right now I'm finishing up hand making the parts for the cylinder head, and working in the water pump and oil pump drive parts. The debate right now is whether I use a harmonic balancer or just a balancer wheel.
Nick Landon
Feather Ruffler Engineering
Landon Racing

 

Interesting, thanks. Keep us up on it!

 

Since my block had water damage in #4, I had to go with .030 over (3.905bore)

 

Early 60's Dragster

 

Thers is a lot of misinformation or confusing info in this and the other threads .
Id like to nail down the combo's that can be done with mostly stock pistons and cranks

So to be clear a 307 chevy piston works in a 153 block with a 181 crank ? If its to low can the deck be cut to compensate? Do I have this correct ???



Is there a V8 or other forged piston that works in the 181 as is with the 181 crank? Id like to find a cheap or common forged 181" flat top .

Is there a easy to do way to use the 181 crank with the smaller 153 rod ends with the crank stroked or destroked by offset grinding the bigger journals with any know common piston??

would be nice to get all the crank journal numbers in one spot .

153 cu. in. (3.875" bore x 3.250" stroke )

3.0. Bore and stroke. 4.00 x 3.60″ / 101 x 91 mm.

 

I agree this and the other similar threads are confusing and full of misinformation.
The one I am building is a .040 over 153 with a a 181 crank & rods. By the specs a 307 piston is perfect but piston manufacturers decrease the compression height on over size pistons to keep the stock compression ratio. The result is that 307 pistons are about .030 down the hole. (not an exact measurement) Some if not all might be made up by decking the block. I was able to buy some Ross forged flat tops for a 250 six that are .020 too tall. (they were made extra tall) This is what is holding up the completion of my engine. I need to get my shop in order so I can build a fixture and cut the Ross pistons down on my mill. By now I could have done it with sand paper on a flat plate while watching TV.

 

I went to a junk yard years ago. There was an old GMC bus with some sort of 6cyl mounted flat under the floor. We didn't stay too long...BEES. Often wondered how it was done. Gene.

 

Six Ball,
Here is a picture of a piston vice I made, could be set to cut the tops flat. Also if you have a lathe and a mill you could make these jaws for your lathe or buy them. ( The pin should not be in, it will fly out! I just left in for the picture.

 

So then a 153 crank will NOT work with a 307 piston.
The 307 piston is for the longer stroke 181 crank.
I'll edit my above post .

So is the 283 piston usable in a 153 with a stock 153 crank ???
If so that leaves some forged options .

I think you can mill the deck a bit . To get the piston closer to the top.
You likely could also off set grind the 181 crank to the stroke it a bit more and go to the small journal rods .

I have a line on a second supposedly good 153 Mercrusier engine for $200 . I'm pretty sure my cracked block 3.0 will yield a good crank and rods . Was thinking a second higher compression build .

I'll end up with 10 engines and nothing done the way it's going .
Going to build run stand for these.

What we really need is a forged true flat top for the 181 .

 

Guys a STOCK 307 piston works. The rebuilder pistons have the compression height knocked way down.

most manufacturers will make you a correct set but $$$

do what I did, fucking grenade your stock bore 307 and pick out the 4 good pistons and put them on the shelf for your 4 banger lol

to the guy with the sbc head car I would LOVE to see any photos you have or take. There is like nothing to be found of the distributor side of the engine when a sbc head is used. I under stand the pushrods will not clear the stock side cover but I’ve “heard tale” of side covered modified to work and the distributor run off the front of the motor or even Harley push rod covers used and let them hang in the breeze.

either way any photos of an actual 153 with a sbc do not show this side of the motor at all. All I do find is aftermarket blocks built for a sbc head which doesn’t do us any good.

Thank you so much for posting!

 

Couple things to remember, if using stock rods, the pin bore is .003 smaller than the standard Chevy pin arraignment. and the big end of the rod is wider on the Merc then normal stock chevy rods. So you need to use XX745H rod bearings for the width, "HN" series are too narrow

 

I think I was where 1biggun is now a few years ago and was enthused enough to figure this stuff out amongst the BS. I think I still have my notes around and possibly some pictures have survived too.
The 194-292 Chevy sixes were designed to use many of the same parts as the small block V8. Figuring out which ones is the issue.
My 153 as I got it. 0.040 over Pistons 0.050" down the hole.

Below is a 0.040" over 307 on a 181 rod with the 181 crank and one of the stock 153 pistons sticking our of the top.
View attachment 5531452

 

If a 307 piston is sitting barely below flush on a 181 crank with a longer stoke how the heck Is it going to work as is with a even shorter stroke ??

One has to be incorrect . ??

If a 307 works in a 153bolck on a 183 crank then a 327 piston that the same stroke as a 307 would work in the 181 block on a 181 crank .

 

I'd also like to see more pics of that chevy head set up including the push rod set up. .

I have a SBC block with 8 .040 forged 307 pistons in it. Problem is its in a well running car .
Guys scoff at a 307 but it's almost a 327 and I just tell guys it's a stroked . 283

In these threads I read of a guy claiming he bored his 153 to 4" and ran std 302 flat tops .
We're those came from is a big mystery. Haven't seen .125 over 283 pistons in years for sale and about every 302 piston made is domed .
I tried to get 302 flat tops years back nothing on the shelf was available then . I wanted to build a turbo 302 on a crank I have .

I read someone was making them two years ago on a Camaro forum but I never found them .

It can't be both ways . A 307 piston won't work on both a 153 an a 181 crank in the same block .

Is there a mix up here ?

 

IM finding a 1.780" compression height for the 153
And about a 1.61 for the 181 Mercrusier

And a 1.665" on this 307 piston .
So I'm not seeing how a 307 piston is working on a 153 crank .
What am I missing ?


This listing is for a set of four Sealed Power cast pistons and a cast piston ring set (Hastings/Perfect Circle/MAHLE) for Mercruiser 2.5L/120hp applications using the Chevrolet 153ci/2.5L 4-cylinder engine. P/N (4) 235NP + 50452CP. Piston specifications are as follows:

• BORE: 3.875" (at std)
• HEAD TYPE: Flat top with valve reliefs
• RING LANDS: 5/64"-5/64"-3/16"
• COMP. DISTANCE: 1.780"
• PIN DIAMETER: .9275"

181 pistons

MERCRUISER 140 PISTON+RING KIT

This listing is for a set of four (4) STANDARD bore Sealed Power or Silv-o-lite hypereutectic flat top pistons and a cast piston ring set (Hastings/Perfect Circle/MAHLE) for Mercruiser 3.0LX/140 applications using the Chevrolet 181ci/3.0L 4-cylinder engine. P/N (4) H897CP or 3493HC + 51240CP. These are the later model flat top pistons, Some earlier model engines require a dish top piston; which we have listed on eBay. Piston specifications are as follows:

• 
  
  
  • BORE: 4.000" (at STANDARD)
  • HEAD TYPE: Flat top without valve reliefs
  • RING LANDS: 5/64"-5/64"-3/16"
  • COMP. DISTANCE: 1.610"
  • PIN DIAMETER:
  • 
    
  • 
    
  • Pistons
    307 PISTONS
  • Silvolite 1438.06
  • Silv-O-Lite Cast Pistons 1438.06
    5 out of 5 stars ( 1 )
    
    
    Part Number: UEM-1438-060
    
    
    • Silv-O-Lite Cast Pistons
      
      Pistons, Cast, Flat, 3.935 in. Bore, 5/64 in., 5/64 in., 3/16 in. Ring Grooves, Chevy, Small Block, Set of 8
      See More Specifications | Check the Fit
      
      
      UEM-1438-060
      5 out of 5 stars
      Overview
      
      Brand:
      Silvolite
      Manufacturer's Part Number:
      1438.06
      Part Type:
      Pistons
      Product Line:
      Silv-O-Lite Cast Pistons
      Summit Racing Part Number:
      UEM-1438-060
      UPC:
      800745010520
      Piston Rings Included:
      No
      Bore (in.):
      3.935 in.
      Bore (mm):
      99.949mm
      Engine Stroke Type:
      Stock
      Piston Style:
      Flat top, with four valve reliefs
      Piston Material:
      Cast aluminum
      Compression Height (in.):
      1.655 in.

 

I think I didn’t realize what specifically you were asking. A stock 153 with stock rods and crank the 307 piston works. This apparently what was run in the motors that were run on propane in industrial applications and should yield around 10:1

The 307 has a funny wrist pin height which is what comes into play in a lot of these conversations

 

307 and 327 share the same stroke
so if a 307 piston works in a 153 on a 182 crank a 327 works in a 181 on its stock 181 crank .

What I'm not getting is how guys are saying the 153 piston and the 250 piston are the same .
The 250 has a 1.640" compression height and the 153" has a 1.780" compression height or the ads are wrong .
Are the 153 and the 181 the same deck height??? Something dosent add up or the rods are a different length . Or a 153 is not a 250 - 3 cylinders .


APPLICATION:



1966-1984 Chevrolet GMC 250 4.1L OHV L6

Except LPG Engines






THIS LISTING WILL INCLUDE:

(.50mm=.020", .75mm=.030)

• (6)DISH-TOP PISTONS

Sizes Available: STD, .020, .030, .040, .060

Compression Height: 1.640"

 

Below! Obviously no pictures below are below that. I was having trouble, still am, loading these old pictures and just quit to watch a baseball game. I''l try again.
The one in the last post is what was in my 153 when I got it. Next is one of those pistons (4 valve cuts) and a 0.040 over D-dish 250 Chevy 6. ( 153s are 2/3 if a 230)



Next we have The same D-dish and a 307 0.040 over with two valve cuts. (the only ones of these I've seen.

 

http://store.enginepartscenter.com/mobile/chevy-gm-153-230-283-235np-p1200.aspx

According to this piston add 153 , 230 and 283 are the same .

So the 153 is 2/3's of a 230 not a 260
If that is correct .
260 guys are using 307 pistons.

If I have this right a 153 uses a 283 piston on a 153 crank .

Six Balls 181 crank in a 153 block uses a 307 or 250 piston as he stated. And if I have it right his engine is 2/3's of a 250 " 6 cyl.

 

Finally the forged custom Ross 250 flat top and the two cut 307. They do not show that the Ross is actually 0.020" above the deck. There is another picture that shows it but I can't find it.




I was focused on "zero" deck height. I should have quit with the 2 cut 307s and that is what is on the rods now. I bet the flat tops would work well with fine with a 153 crank and some decking.

 

The 153 and 230 stroke is 3.25" . The 250 is 3.53". The 181 is 3.60".

 

I have seen a 250 six with a head made from 2 v8 heads. The push rods were outside the block/head in a custom sheet metal pushrod cover that took that whole side of the engine, Ugly and a LOT of work. These worked well enough to get them outlawed by NHRA. Putting a V8 head on a 4 would not be as hard but just as ugly and I doubt that on a street car the time & expense would be worth it. If that much power is that important for the street a small block will bolt into the same hole.

 

I edited some of my above let's get it in one spot post above .

I think the 283 chevy piston fits the 153.
the 307 fits the 153 block with a 181 crank .

250 pistons are to tall with a 181 crank in 153 block.
Explains why the 250 pistons stick out to far on your 181 crank .

Wonder if you can destroke the crank by offset grinding slightlyv and going to the smaller 153 journal ??

Or add stroke the same way and find a piston that works in a 4" bore. The 350 piston is a no go.
There are 181 flat tops just nothing forged.

It looks to me like 153 crank in a 4" bore would use a 302 chevy flat top of you could find or make one.
I think most of the domed 302 pistons are a hollow dome so you can't machine them off much and
Guys are saying a v8 dome does not work on a 6 or 4.

I'm wondering how big a 153 marine block can be over bored??
There cheap around here out of boats. My crab a second for $175 complete said to run.

There are 3 181 boat engines in the market place for under $500 each .
One is $350 .

 

The D-dish piston in the pictures is a 250. I rejected it because of the big bevel around the outside edge and it's affect on CR..
The forged Ross flat tops were custom ordered, by the guy I got them from, with an extra length to the top. Ross will make them any way you want. I believe 250 & 307 are the same. The problem is the replacement piston makers don't tell how much they shorten their pistons to retain stock compression ratio for over bore increments. The bigger the over bore the shorter the piston. That could be made up by decking the block if your machinist had the pistons in hand.

Here is one of the pistons that came in my 153 next to a Ross. Note extra material above the top ring.


I haven't really looked into pistons for the 181 but I'm pretty sure a decent choice is out there.
The 6 cylinder family the 153 comes from have an accepted over bore limit of 0.060" = 3.935". I have a 250 block with pistons that have 0.080 on the top. That would be 3.955" still well short of 4".

 

Everything you need to confirm piston interchange between the engines we've discussed here in here: https://www.uempistons.com/rt-5-catalogs
Down load the SILV-O-LITE pdf.
Using the OM interchange & Specs 153, 230, & 283 use the same pistons. The '68-'72 307 is not exactly the same as the 250. There are 3 choices for the 250 2 with a D dish, one is coated, & one with a round dish. There are two compression heights given. 1.640 for the D dish & 1.660 for the round. The round one is lower compression 8.4 vs 7.6. The 305 is flat with 4 valve cuts. 1.655 ch and 8.7 cr in the V8. It would work and likely bier CR in a 153 with a 181 crank. Mine only have 2 valve cuts.
These are just the Silvolite offerings but it is a solid place to start.

 

I have a set of short rods if anyone is interested

 

So is the consensus that a 307 piston with its odd ball wrist pin height will not work in an otherwise stock 153?

I’ve read that three different profile pistons came in the 153 and this recent conversation is the only time in the last 5 years thst I’ve ever seen mention of this piston not working.

i went a little cross eyed at @Six Ball photos and text so figured I’d just ask outright