Thinking of dumping E85 in my heap. Been trying to find a nice hilborn setup to do it with but I might just give it a whirl with my three Rochesters. They have the good pumps. Plug the power valves and start with probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a 70-75 jet? The motor is only about 9:1 so that could be a bit of an issue. Other than that WTH?
I have a ton of experience with it going back almost 20 years. Both my T and my old 54 Chevy were set up for it. I also ran several months of testing in my OT flexfuel vehicle. Odds are, your system is not set up to withstand the 85% alky. It will also clean out ALL the junk in the system and cause problems at the carbs. Your compression is also pretty low. I would say for most folks it is not worth the h***le.
I would not do it. Alcohol will evaporate very fast (carbs run at 6 psi and efi runs at 50 psi). Alcohol is a corrosive and not sure your set would last. Also no power gain without other modifications.
How about in a mechanical injection system? I can see the carbs being damaged and a pain to get right.
If you want to run E85, 100% of your fuel system needs to be set up for it. Very emphatically, E85 is NOT a drop-in replacement for conventional gasoline.
Mechanical injection systems, with a static displacement pump, and a barrel (or similar) valve for metering fuel are exceptionally difficult to set up on a street vehicle. Only a handful of people have done it with anything that can be claimed to be somewhat succesful. The problem with them is that they do not meter fuel based on engine need. They only do it via the valve controlled by the throttle. All of the race vehicles, mostly Porsches, with mechanical injection were a hellish nightmare of having a throttle that was more-or-less full on, or idle.
One has to remember that alcohol has only half the BTUS of Gasoline. So, it takes twice the fuel to develope the same heat in the cylinder as gasoline. If running alcohol, the Jets must be huge compared to gasoline. Also, alcohol LOVES aluminum. It eats it like a fat guy at a free lunch counter. We ran a sprint car for years and always backed down the motor after we ran to ensure no Alcohol was left anywhere in the injection system or lines. We had a shut off near the tank to prevent alcohol from accidentally running forward and damaging aluminum fittings. On the good side, the stuff doesn't knock and you can run lots of advance and much higher compression that gas. To me, the advantages on the street are minimal if any. It does run much cooler and a downside is that it burns clear flames so, by the time you see peeling paint or holes in your uniform, you have a FIRE! The good thing is that alcohol fires are easily extinguished with water. After running it for over 10 years every week in the race car, it was great for racing but I will stick to regular old gasoline for the street. The really good thing about it is that the corn farmers sell all they can to refiners.
The Lucas timed injection racecars were a little more forgiving, depending on how aggressive the fuel cam was shaped. Shuttle metering is way more complex than a constant flow system though, even with the vacuum diaphragm removed. Cheers, Harv
I am a fan of the Bosch CIS and CIS K-Jetronic systems. They are mechanical, and work quite well. They, of course, have a flap valve, and are demande responsive. Alas, they have no place on this board.
with my arizona location to drive to tijuana… i drive most my mileage in the state of California. I drive an OT highbred but it’s not set up for E85. I honestly don’t like the car but it does get good mileage but at six dollars a gallon in California for gas… paying under four dollars for a gallon of e85 might be worthwhile… Now… If I can get my 41 Cadillac to get decent mileage on the e85 it might be economically realistic to drive the 41!!!
The Lucas stuff is HAMB friendly. It dates back to the war (originally set up for Rolls Royce aero engines), with plenty of post war Jag-wah's running it at places like Lemans. Clearly Joseph's descendants made better injection than electricals Cheers, Harv
Alcoholate corrosion of aluminium requires the almost total absence of water in the fuel. Drying ethanol to less than 4.4% water, and then keeping it dry, isn't worth the considerable effort, considering that 4.4% is amply sufficient to suppress alcoholate corrosion, and up to 10-12% may have benefits for combustion. All kinds of things seem to be pointing to hydrous ethanol being a desirable fuel. The problem is that high petroleum-fraction contents reduce the miscibility of water in the blend, leading to the situation where ambient temperatures keep crossing the point where the water starts to separate out. Ethanol in itself is known as a drier: it eliminates some of the effects of moisure by holding water in solution. Also, low-alcohol blends tend to be more volatile than any of their cons***uent parts on their own, hence issues with vapour lock etc. In both cases the solution is to add more alcohol. Neither should be an issue with E85.
I was thinking E85 wouldn’t be corrosive due to the presence of gasoline. I’ve also heard that most E85 is actually E70-E75 if you test it.
I have been told the ethanol content in E85 varies from about 65 to 86 percent...Not a problem for electronic engine management to adjust mixtures and timing...Ethanol has wider acceptable air fuel ratio than gas but carbs may have an issue
No, trust me. As I said I have thousands of miles on E85 in my old OT pickup. Even with a computer and EFI the swings between regular 10% (the norm around here for 40 years) and E85 really confuses the engine. I have my own scanner and we ran it for a while with a Snap On laptop style scanner hooked up. It is amazing to see what the AFR does with the various fuels and how well it does or does not adjust. The other issue, in our are there is only one place that sells it while we have dozens of stations for normal unleaded. I would run it at Bonneville, but not again on the street.
You need special fuel hoses to run E85. Normal fuel hoses are made of Nitrile rubber (NBR). For ethanol you need a hose made of Fluorocarbon rubber (FKM). Or you could use steel braided Teflon hose (PTFE).
A 15% drop in fuel mileage using E85 doesn't seem all that great to me. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=411a...wZ2V0JTIwMjIuNSUyMG1wZyUyMG9uJTIwRTg1Lg&ntb=1
At least in the Midwest, the vast majority of gas has some percentage of Ethanol in it. 10% 87or 88 Octane is about the standard. Has been that way since the 1980s. So, most fuel hose you will find in parts houses and jobbers in alcohol compatible.
Running E85 in an engine designed for gasoline = bad idea. Running E85 in an engine designed for E85 = good idea. If you want to run E85 in a vintage car, build the engine for E85 to take advantage of E85's upside and minimize it's downside. I.E. High compression, correct jets, ethanol compliant fuel system, E85 specific timing curve, etc.
Probably more like a 40 percent drop. Still not a good idea I guess. I’ll stick to the old fossil fuel. Corn sounds like too much trouble. Main benefit I was hoping to get was it running cooler but I’ll just deal with that. Thanks guys
You can get away with 10%, NOT 85%! Normal fuel hoses are made of Nitrile rubber (NBR) and will start to deteriorate within months if you use E85.
Yes, that's nice. Why anyone would use cheap rubber hose in their hot rod is beyond me? Especially since you should not have more than a foot or two in the entire car anyway. Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned both my 54 and my Touring (20 years of my rodding) were set up with the right components to run alky? Plus add the 1000s of miles testing various blends up to E85 in an OT Flexfuel vehicle? Ethanol first started showing up here at the pumps in the early 80s, we have a long track record with it.
All my line are hard stainless or ptfe????? braid with an fittings. The mechanical pump may not make it though.
I recall ARCO in the 80’s selling “gasahol”. I guess it was the same thing? I found out in Ca, may have read it here, pumps don’t need to be labeled for “E” unless a certain percentage over some point. Heck, the lawn mower I bought a few months ago has raised writing on the fuel cap along the lines of E5, E10, then an E85 with a slash through it.
Yup, was called Gasohol back then. We run straight 91 Octane Premium with NO Ethanol in our small engines. I do run Stabil in them since they set a lot.
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