The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Thanks for the fast reply . Im trying arrange getting it. Doing a 2.5 and 3.0 GM first but I saw this and thought hmmm . Have a mill so modifying the block is not a deal breaker .
wort case its junk and im out $75 .

I'll start reading the rest of the thread.

 

Man That looks great . Inspiring in fact .
Im into a 2.5 Chevy build now but I have several projects needing engines.

Just wanted to be sure I was not getting into something were there was something not available or the blocks could not take a over bore or had know issues . clearly have some home work to do .

This looks like a engine Id like to spend a little extra on. Its a few hours away .

Dont want a V6 and want a bit more than a 2.5 or 3.0 4 cylinder . Some differant but American .
Aluminum head is a big plus also .

 

[QUOTE=" . Have a mill so modifying the block is not a deal breaker .
[/QUOTE] few machine shops have a large enough mill to shorten the block. A few pages back, I showed how to cut the block down accurately with a cutoff wheel mounted in a 7" angle grinder bolted to the flywheel.
cheap Harbor Freight grinder, a $7 cutoff disk and some scrap iron
these 3.7 Mercruisers feel like they have triple the power of the chevy engines you are working on. I was dissapointed in the 2.5's power.

Yes, there are minor easily fixed known issues with the 3.7 . It's alternator is weak and its voltage regulator short-lived. Its water pump bolts onto the end of its camshaft so you need good seals to keep antifreze out of the oil.
The compression is high for cheap gas so people complain about detonatoin. I am pleased to have changed to low compression pistons . Your cam makes a big difference.

 

1biggun, I have 4 of the 3.7 engines now, but this summer I picked up 5, 3.0 engines for $100. I only wanted one, but he made me deal I could not refuse! The 181 is a baby compared to the 3.7!

I will admit my engine is on the wilder side with the Boss head and mechanical injector, but its just .030 over bore. I did stroke the crank to 4". With my Ford trans (T5Z) and chevy bell I had to drill the crank for pilot bearing, no other work for me. Others say cut the block, but don't do it till you at least check to see if you need to.

 

Mr Calkins ,
Looking at the engine from the rear the Mercruiser starter is about at 10 oclock and on a chevy bellhousing the starter is about at 4 oclock. This mismatch restricts our starter and bellhousing choice. Steel aftermarket bellhousings made to your specification should solve many of the fitment and safety concerns you face and your starter choice would be wider.
I have had starter windings replaced to accept higher voltage, it was not expensive ($150).

 

few machine shops have a large enough mill to shorten the block. A few pages back, I showed how to cut the block down accurately with a cutoff wheel mounted in a 7" angle grinder bolted to the flywheel.
cheap Harbor Freight grinder, a $7 cutoff disk and some scrap iron
these 3.7 Mercruisers feel like they have triple the power of the chevy engines you are working on. I was dissapointed in the 2.5's power.

Yes, there are minor easily fixed known issues with the 3.7 . It's alternator is weak and its voltage regulator short-lived. Its water pump bolts onto the end of its camshaft so you need good seals to keep antifreze out of the oil.
The compression is high for cheap gas so people complain about detonatoin. I am pleased to have changed to low compression pistons . Your cam makes a big difference.[/QUOTE]

Been reading this thread slowly.

Going to go get the engine Monday after work.
Shame Mercruiser didn't put a BBC head on it instead.
Lot more single cheap aluminum heads and aftermarket.
Not a deal breaker just wishful thinking.

 

Ford T5's seem to be easier to find and if adaptable with out cutting then that's a win win.
Will need to add a pilot bearing hole . Figured as much .

I have a old 27 speedway kit with there frame . Was thinking this engine with a 5 speed track nose would go pretty good and the aluminum block and a head would really help the handling and let me run a lighter spring and stuff.

 

Anyone with a horizontal mill can make quick work of it. Look at real machine shops, not automotive specialized shops.

 

[QUOTE="1biggun,
Going to go get the engine Monday after work.
Shame Mercruiser didn't put a BBC head on it instead.
Lot more single cheap aluminum heads and aftermarket.
Not a deal breaker just wishful thinking.[/QUOTE]

1biggun, forget the bbc head, buy a real head and make one of these!! lol Track T is what I have!

 

And as far as my T5Z Ford trans, I bought a GM case and put my Ford guts in. Direct interchange. That way I didn't have to have any adaptors. It bolts right up to the Chevy bell but use Chevy bearing retainer and Ford input shaft, Ford clutch disc and pressure plate. Also have a hyd throw out bearing.

 

All good info .
What does the Z represent in T5Z?

NICE car. I want a T that can handel the back roads. Kind of a sports car vibe.
I have both 23 and 27 glass bodies.

 

Lots of activity in here. Makes me happy.

I had theorized many pages back that the Ford T5 parts in a Chevy case would do what you describe. Glad to see someone did it and it worked.

 

A T5Z is a non-OEM version of the T5 that Ford Racing sold for a bunch of years. May even still sell it. It has different ratios and is a bit stronger (rated at 330 lb-ft v 300 lb-ft) than the factory T5's shipped in 5.0 Mustangs. Ratios were/are 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/0.63. It's a "close ratio" box. The stock T5 had 3.35/1.99/1.34/1.00/0.67 ratios. The difference isn't enormous. But if you were a little over geared in 1st it helped. In the Mustang world it made big axle gears livable. 4.10's were common with the T5Z.

 

Is there a factory Ford box ( like mustang that it's internals fit in Certain GM box ?

 

T5 was only used in Mustangs and some Thunderbird Turbo Coupes. The T-Birds had different ratios and a different input length as they were behind 2.3 I4's. As long as you are putting Ford World Class (WC) guts in a GM World Class case, you should be good. But you cannot mix Non World Class (NWC) and World Class parts. There are two WC GM main cases. One is the desirable Muncie mount type. The other is actually a Ford case. Borg Warner (at the time, Tremec now) only made the Ford pattern case after a certain point.

Also, 1994 and newer has a different input length. It's longer.

 

Did you use the 7.18" input length (foxbody) or the 7.85" (SN95 - 94-2004)? Referencing the T5Z implies 7.18" length but That seems like it'd come up short. Can you tell me more about how it all fits together?

 

It's is the shorter input. It is what the Z trans came with. It is what I was told is the Muncie GM case. Only differences are some reverse shift springs and lever. It did not come up short, the input is in the bearing I machine the crank for by 1/2".
I have since come up with a aftermarket bellhousing that is Chevy bell but Ford Trans pattern. I think it was for a jeep. That bellhousing is deeper than the regular Chevy housing I used. It may be for the longer ford input. It may work with the 94 the newer Ford trans. This stuff is all over the place and needs to mocked up to see what is needed.
I had mine mocked up with a T56 6 speed, a Muncie 4 speed and the Z trans. None of them needed anything special other then machining for a polit bearing.

 

On my second engine, thats the exact setup that was used. They quoted me the price before doing the work and then complained about the money they lost on setup time.
So when the shop says x amount plus setup time it may cost the customer much more than if the owner just states a price that he thinks is reasonable.

 

About 25 years ago I bought a 5 speed Mustang transmission and clutch at a swapmeet. After I got it home, it looked small even the pressure plate was small. It all looked so little that I just put it away.
Probably a good thing as I just looked up the T5 and saw that those used on the 2300cc engines were rated at 220 ft lbs and had odd gear ratios.
So it seems that some T5 transmissions are not strong enough for the 3.7 Mercruiser. I guess you'd measure the input shaft to know what it is.

 

Never seen one of Ford's 4 cyl T5's but can say that the S10 T5's are on the wimpy side. Both input shaft and output shafts are smaller and torque ratings down.
The Ford T5 is considered a mid-shift, with the S10 a front shift and the Camero a rear shift. So rear housing and top shift mechanisms can be interchanged to some degree staying within world class and non world class. But with some machine work that can be overcome too.
Dennis, if you have the tag number off it, I have a list of all the T5's, about 250 different combinations.

 

Picked up 470.
Never seen one before . It's BIG .
Much bigger than I expected.
Kid had it was in his grandfather's barn .
Said it turns over no compression on two cylinders. Thinks it got moisture in it from years of storage. On the cylindets with open valves Supposedly was good when removed. Not susposed to be a head gasket failure .

Pully on damper, flywheel is pretty thin but drilled for what looks to be a pressure plate pattern .

Big heavy starter. Ring gear pretty worn in spots .
2bbl manifold and carb

I'll pull the head hopefully soon .
Hope the cylinders are good enough to bore .030.

Interesting engine.

$75 and 2 hours of driving can't really get hurt .

Will definitely fill the gap between the firewall and radiator.

 

@1biggun,
You've got the disease now.
Where are you located? We might be able to do some tradin'!

 

South of Madison WI.
I'm among ways from doing much with it.
Might pull the head just to see what the cylinders look like .

 

I would strongly suggest seeing if it's only surface rust & can be honed, not to bore it (unless it's just too bad to use), & if that's good, carefully disassemble & save & label everything & if the bearings are good & pass Plastigage, you will save a bunch of money (I wasted the price of the re-build on mine because I didn't think about the possibility that the motor might be perfectly OK & that I'd be ok with a set of rings & gaskets to & lap the valves, as I determined later...)

 

Oh I'm hoping it will hone and only need rings.

The 3.0 I bought looks new inside had like 5 hours on it when they let it freeze . The rod bearings will be reused if I can find a good block .

I inframed a Toyota Land Crusier straight 6 ( sort of a 235 copy ) years ago never touched the mains .
Damn thing went another 75,000 miles before we sold it.

Oil in the engine looks good . Still has coolant in it and the heat exchanger.

 

From the photos, you have the ford flywheel so a ford pressure plate bolts on, just scrape the paint off the friction surface. Ford may be able to supply a ring gear for you to shrink on.
Your "dampener" is the alternator rotor. It has no elastomer in it but may work as its weight is needed. Its magnets sometimes fall out. Aftermarket dampeners bolt on and have timing marks that will be helpful. You can sell the alternator windings for much more the your engine cost. The heat exchanger can be sold as for you, its only use was to keep sea water out of the engine, has been fulfilled so you have no further use for it.
It makes the chevy 4's look dainty. At a racetrack, the crew for a chevy 4 car saw my engine and panicked and tried to disqualfy me. You have begun an adventure.

 

3.0 engines in track cars regularly froze as they are not allowed to use antifreeze. They regularly had the cracked blocks repaired but when JBweld came out they just used it instead. I "stitched" a block just to try it but the other methods take much less labor.

 

Don't bore unless forced to. And if so then go 20 over. You will have to wait for the pistons to be made (no extra cost)but that is only a month.

 

That coolant tank is nifty. You should run it in your vehicle.

x2. Low dollar pleasure craft tend to be garage queens so most of these motors have low hours.

 

3 cracked gm 4'S in my shop now.
In WI it's pretty common.

2 153's and 1 3.0L