The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Speedway has the harmonic dampener for SBF that has both counter-weights as bolt-ons(DISCARD THE WEIGHTS) : you now have a place to bolt on a pulley to drive your alternator.

 

The factory set up has a pully..
Can't it be just ran as is minus the internal alternator ? I also note the original balancer or dampner or what ever it actually is in thus case has a lot of holes drilled in it on one side as if it's not a internally balanced engine? Is it ?

 

It is an internally balanced engine, but a weak point is the factory Alternator/Balancer that has a tendency to "disassemble" itself. You'd be better to sell the factory unit to another boat owner & replace it with a zero balance SBF unit to avoid that problem. I KNOW it's a long read, but I STRONGLY SUGGEST GOING BACK & READING THIS ENTIRE THREAD!!! That way you'll get a better understanding of this engine...

 

When all the magnets are glued in there is a need to balance it. If you wanted to use it, take the magnets out before they fall out and have it rebalanced. It will work, its just big and ugly! As said it is a neutral balance piece.

 

Yes I need to go read it all . Will do . should have already .
thanks for the clarification.

 

I did the same thing, but I'm smarter now. Did buy a set of connecting rod bearings $52 as the ones that came with this motor had bits of metal embedded in them and the journals had suffered from that . Polished the crank, cleaned out the block's oil passages and drilled out the oil passages in the crank as the debris there was too solid to brush out.

 

Sean, I just got off the phone with Mahle. Their tech support is excellent. He checked blueprints of the headgaskets, all they had were from the 1980's and the "notches" are not on them. I sent him your excellent drawing and it compares well with gaskets in my hand.

He said that this is the first report of the head gasket notch concern and naturally he is quite interested in it. The notches do not show up on mahle gasket drawings....something strange there.

He asked if the mark from the gasket on the tops of the cylinders show an adequate fit. I surface all of my decks so I could not reply on that one. We agreed that any leak around the cylinder will quickly erode the cylinder.

He wants to know if we encounter any problems with the gasket.[/QUOTE]

That is really interesting. Great idea to talk to Mahle. As the head was off this engine when I bought it I didn't inherit the original gasket. It isn't all that clear either as the head has haze rust on the heads deck (bought boat with parts). I may have found the "strange" here... Digging through my gasket set the head gasket is stamped 17068. So I searched that number and that comes up as a Felpro number for a marine 460 - but not Mahle. Now I am a bit confused as why would someone get a gasket kit without a head gasket and then buy it separately? Or did someone pull the gasket from the set at the dealer then throw in a felpro to fill the hole? This is ethically possible with the boat dealers we have. Yup.
Either way it looks like I am hunting down another gasket, this one being so tight to the water jacket, I just don't trust it.

 

OEM head bolts are ~4.25 long with 1-1/2 threaded. The speedmaster head is 4" thick on one side and 3-1/4 thick on the other side. The block is threaded 2"+ deep (except where the dowel pins go ~1/2" into the block in which case the threaded length is less).

So this means that my OEM head bolts are ~1/2" short on the low side and 1-3/4 short on the high side, more if I want to use hardened washers (which I should because aluminum).

So this begs the question, what application has 9/16 head bolts that are 6"+ long.

What head bolts/studs are other people with the ProComp/Speedmaster head running?

 

Wholesale Marine just listed MerCruiser 3.7(470) headgaskets : Sierra 18-3878: replaces 27-13709 for $32.49

 

For those that have been patiently waiting:
Speedmaster bare aluminum 460 head
https://www.speedmaster79.com/Ford-429-460-275cc-95cc-As-Cast-Bare-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head

$293.34!

 

That's a good price!

 

What is going on with that 2:00 bolt hole?

Bellhousing is 3925505




I dug out a normal GM v8 to GM 13-14" MTD flywheel/clutch/bell adapter plate and same issue. So I think it's the engine.

fuck

 

Yes, it is. There is also a CNC machined option.
The sale only lasts until Sunday midnight.

I bought one at a similar price a year or so ago. Free shipping and no tax. The free shipping still applies I don't know about the tax.

The quality appears good and since I was mainly interested in the weight savings, I didn't need the 'trick of the month' port work or combustion chambers.

I know @dennis g had been looking at using an aluminum head. Just passing the info along to help anyone trying to do the same.

 

@arse_sidewards,
I knew that was going to piss you off. Sorry!
As to the bellhousing, that is Mercruiser's pattern. The general consensus is to just ignore that hole. I am planning on using a block plate and will include that one and tap a hole for the bellhousing bolt in the plate.

I am looking at purchasing the valves for my head from Speedmaster as they are on sale, too. They come in sets of 8, intakes or exhausts. If you want to split the cost, send me a conversation. Sale is only good until midnight tomorrow.

 

As to that hole, if you were to use a "Lakewood-style" steel bellhousing it is a simple matter to remove/relocate/weld the tab on the bellhousing to line-up with the block. I've been told (unable to verify, sorry ) that the block bolt pattern is for a six-cyl Chevy, & that's why the location is different. Another benefit of using a "Lakewood-style" housing is that it is much easier to modify (relocate) the starter mounting location to accommodate the MerCruiser starter mounting, as steel is much easier to cut & weld than cast iron or aluminum (Duh!!) LOL!

 

I'm going to fix the hole because I already have to go the whole pre/post heat process for my patch over the starter area.

If you want to split the cost of some Eglin 1.8 ratio roller rockers or a set of 3/8 hardened push rods I'd be interested.

 

Sent you a private message.

 

Anyone have a cheap Boss head and valve cover they would part with? (Wishful thinking, right?) Even a junk one I can use for mock up would be great.

 

If anyone is buying or has one of the Speedmaster heads, I ordered all the bits and pieces to finish mine up. I will have enough parts to complete another set of heads, for under $100.
Message me if you are interested.

Bruce

 

I have an odd rod bearing/journal problem. I am using Enginetech BB618JS-STD bearings which are supposedly standard fitment for a 370/429/460

My journal mics at 2.499+0/-.001" which as far as I care is right on the max end of the spec which per Mercury is 2.4979"-2.4989" and per Ford 2.4992"-2.500" with no identifiable taper or out of roundness.

The rod bearing as installed in the cap torqued to "good enough" has an ID of 2.498"-2.497" with no identifiable taper or out of roundness.

So I'm about two thou smaller than I need to be for proper oil clearance. Anyone have any ideas how to proceed? Should I just buy another set of rod bearings of a different brand and cross my fingers?

 

Check the housing bore of the rods....with a crank that isn't going to be reground, your only choice to get enough bearing clearance may be to open the housing bores up some. The housing bores could be at the low side of their tolerance, while the journals are obviously at the high side, giving less than ideal bearing clearances....

 

2.653, maybe 2.652 and tenths in some spots. The bearings mic out to .076-77 for the new ones and .073-.074 for the old ones (which have all sorts of trash in them and are generally unusable).

It's kind of hard to get a trustworthy reading on when sticking the corner of a curved surface half way into a mic anvil so take that bearing thickness with a grain of salt.

These rods came off this engine so at some point they worked, probably.

Edit:

OEM bearings are still available. I'm tempted to order up a set for $40 and see how they fit.

The bearings I'm currently using are a reboxed King CR816SI.

Specs:

Engine Connecting Rod Bearing Set Model or Series: SI-Series
Make: Ford
Engine: 429/460 BBF
Bearing Oversize: Standard
Usage: Replacement
Construction: Bi-Metal
Backing Layer Material: Steel Backing
Bearing Lining or Intermediate Material: Aluminum Lining
Overlay Material: N/A
Coated: No
Chamfered: No
Narrowed: No
Grooved: No
Bearing Width: .8642"
Standard Bearing Thickness (Without O/S): .0760"
Standard Crank Pin Diameter (Without O/S): 2.500"
Standard Housing Diameter (Without O/S): 2.652"

 

Not exactly the usual suggestion, but have you considered having the bearing halves as installed in the rods honed to the proper size, much like the process when the rods are being reconditioned for a rebuild? Should be a simple process at any competent machine shop, & should not be that expensive, plus you would have a precision fit for each rod bearing & journal. I know this isn't the usual solution, but just another way to "skin a cat"...

 

One last notification
Speedmaster held the price over until midnight tonight. Cyber Monday!

 

Has anyone actually tried using a BBF balancer on one of these?


Speedmaster has the high dollar fluid balancers on sale for ~$100 through tonight.

I assume there's some interference between something since the SBF balancer is offset further forward than the BBF balancer but I'm wondering if it's a solveable amount of interference.

The bore is the same between the two (1.375).

The seal diameter is different (2.100 for the 385 vs 1.875 for the Windsor)

 

Not like I know, but...

Balancer spacer make up the difference? I just remember them being a BBF thing. Mike

 

The difference in seal diameters is going to be the biggest challenge. Any difference in offset should be an easy fix...

 

They are used on FE engines....

 

My first post here and have Only made it through 20 pages of this story...Fascinating, like the engine. Has anyone thought of using ultra light pistons, drag race engine style, to calm down the vibration issue, or is it not that big a deal? My plan is a 224 Merc in a 50's Willys truck or CJ-5, perhaps running on propane...Love this!

 

I have alum rods, custom pistons made as light as possible. I also stroked my crank to 4 inches. I have mine running but have not driven it yet. If you don't stroke yours and are using stock rods, stock 460 pistons come in about 1000 grams. With custom stuff you should be able to get that down to about 650 grams at best.