You want your transmission to not intrude too much into the cabin floor and the oil pan to not hit every minor speed bump.
Personally I have to agree with Chris, you are far better off to send an orignial Ford Axle off to be properly dropped and reconditioned than trust some of the new aftermarket stuff. Then for us to decide one way or the other we would have to see the actual axle you believe is beyond hope. That because we don't know what shape it is actually in without seeing it for ourselves. As for the hard chop that will be a comfort zone deal for you to handle. 100+K in 4 inch chopped Chevy pickup says that you have to learn driving a chopped rig as traffic lights are a pain in the ass to see and your vision in all directons is limited plus if you do a gun slit rear window rather than dropping the bottom of the window some to have a bit larger window the inside rear view mirror is useless. As far as headers as long as your steering shaft or box doesn't block off access to the rear port most good custom header builders can work around it.. That is called design and planning as far as engineering the whole setup.
Many ways to build one to your taste. I don’t mind studying and reading up on what I am attempting. I have a 4 inch dropped I beam, split wishbone, reversed eye spring, Vega cross steer and F100 self adjusting drums up front. Spring behind champ style quick change rear with ladder bars. Frame by myself because so much is far from stock
[QUOTE="jimpopper, You want your transmission to not intrude too much into the cabin floor and the oil pan to not hit every minor speed bump.[/QUOTE] I totally agree with this idea however, it looks like something has to give according to his opening mockup photo. I have no problem with a heavy Chop on the street. It looks like he wants the bottom of the Body around 8" off the slab. Looks like he needs the Motor about where it is and build a fairly large Trans Tunnel. I think that's doable.
I totally agree with this idea however, it looks like something has to give according to his opening mockup photo. I have no problem with a heavy Chop on the street. It looks like he wants the bottom of the Body around 8" off the slab. Looks like he needs the Motor about where it is and build a fairly large Trans Tunnel. I think that's doable.[/QUOTE] Totally doable but from a practical standpoint his engine being so above the frame instead of in the frame allows the engine torque to flex the frame more and unload a back tire under acceleration. I agree it males a statement but with a decent intake system and limited windshield, he will be looking through a small tunnel which sucks if the unexpected happens. It’s his car, work and money at the end of the day but he did ask for advice which I’m glad to see people willing to provide.
My apologies for sure - the 4x4 chunks of wood are just a way of getting the engine out of the back of my truck and sitting somewhere.... out of the way! I do plan on dropping it 4-6" and setting back enough to cut into the firewall about 2-3". Mr. Strode, thank you for the up close picture showing the vega box sitting in line with the motor mount and my worries are unfounded - you can shoehorn all that into a tight space!!
With cowl steering, yes, indeed. The theory of parallelism only is valid when you are using a 4-lnk front suspension setup. Even in that case, if the drag link is exactly the same length as the suspension links, bump steer can be induced at the first degree of steering away from perfectly straight. Parallelism is not at all valid when using a single-pivot suspension link on each side. In that case, the drag link should start at the steering arm on the spindle, and end directly over the top of the pivot for the split-bone, wishbone, etc. In both cases, if the drag link is exactly the same length as the suspension links, bump steer can be induced at the first degree of steering away from perfectly straight All cars, no matter the popularity of the builder, or how cool they look, that are built with cowl steering, and have a drag link that is parallel to the single-pivot suspension link have bump steer. Every single one. They are only made tolerable by building front suspension that just about does not work, or tolerating it. Don't believe me? Just ask: @Pete Eastwood (yes THAT Pete Eastwood) @Kerrynzl @Ned Ludd Each can confirm this.
Now, for cross steering, don't weld the steering box mount in until all of the weight is on the suspension. Once it is, place the box so the drag link is as close to horizontal as it can be. As that cycles, that also will create minor bump-steer, so the link needs to be as close to the vertex of the arc that it swings in.
I like one that is seriously hammered. That said I am long waisted and short legged. A Doctor once told me if my legs went with my torso I would be about 6'2". So seriously hammered is only if it belongs to someone else. LOL As for determining if the axle is worth saving I would need to see it. I have seen them in pretty poor shape and some that just looked poor. Lets see what you are working with.
Yes there is. Not for me but for someone who is not good the way they came and has money to burn. LOL I actually thought about having a vertebrae removed. But the way my discs have been checking out I will be close to normal in another 10 years or so.
Come on dude, You will never be close to Normal! Thank God for that. I just hope both of us will still be here 10 years from now.
I don't disagree at all...but I've noticed the "rolling Bones" cars are built a little differently than most to at least minimize the effect, and people don't really pay attention it! What they have done is simply use a non-dropped axle, which as a result requires the pivot point of the split bone to mount higher on the frame. Also they mount the cowl steer box really low to get the pitman arm joint as close as possible (considering it IS cowl steering) to the bone pivot point. They certainly don't run a cowl steer thats as far off the mark as others try to get away with! I'm sure theres still some bump steer, but in their case it would be perhaps the least amount this type of setup would ever see. Cowl steer was originally about getting steering around a large engine in a small chassis. You did what you had to. Now it's more of a styling choice. Be pretty easy to run a cowl box and have the link go to an idler arm setup that redirects another drag link into a cross steer configuration that mimics Vega box geometry. Wouldn't be that difficult at all. Lots of clearance for everything. But would look..."different". Oops...Theres that old specter of STYLING rearing its ugly head again...LOL How lucky the creators of this hobby were back in the day to not have to worry about that so much.
Well unless someone takes me out I should be lucky enough to live another 10, I'll be 2 years short of my dad. Just to muddy up the waters a little bit a smart builder (one who is not using 3D design software) builds the exhaust last. Set your steering box and etc. then build your exhaust to miss it all.
I have actually drawn an entire build in 3D complete with headers and took it far enough to articulate it so as to try the function of each component in relation to other components. It was more of a form of entertainment than anything else. I still prefer hands on when I am building.
I still build by hand. Digital is for making sure that which makes sense in my head actually makes sense in reality.
LOL that is kind of like theoretical physics compared to practical physics. Most of the time in my world I am not pioneering. I have been playing cars and motorcycles a long time and I know what works and what does not. Sometimes I refine something that I have been doing a long time and then I have to try it to see if it works, or if my changes actually make any real world difference.
Sometimes we tinker to be creative. Sometimes we create because it's the only way we get to have a Hot Rod. I've always been around people playing with Cars, Buggies and Trucks and their passion kind of rubs off if you pay attention. The biggest obstacles for most is a lack of space and adequate time to focus and do. I have a buddy with no space and he builds and races RC cars just to be creative and competitive.
Pretty much any old original I Beam axle is a good axle. Except the recent cast ones that will bend and break.
Old cars are NOT supposed to drive like shit. All I'm going to add is that engineers smarter than most of us figured shit out long ago. They usually focused on BASICS. In my posts you'll see I'm fan of the basics because they never fail you. What looks kool is often not. Kool is you passed 25,000 miles and had ZERO serious issues. Split bones like a Panhard bar. They're not always needed (some say a buggy spring does the job) but if travel and such tells you it's a good idea then you have 1 more link to figure in. With cross steer you may be asking the drag link to take up some of that movement. Not good. If you need a Panahrd bar make it as long as possible. Arc of travel. Lots of stuff in these pages about it. I'll share my goal because that's the only similarity I have. I want the driveability of my car to be just a sip of coffee from totally boring. No excess input from me to keep it straight. No pulling in the brakes. No rattles, bangs or slowing down for normal road fuck ups. The ability to avoid animals or errant texting twits not watching the road. Helluva goal, a target I DEMAND that I hit. Boring. So good it's fuckin near boring to drive. What you're wanting to build is tried and true. It's not copycat to follow good sound priciples. It's safe and smart. Go for it.
Littlemann perhaps grab a coffee and have a read of this thread. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/cowl-steering-just-stop.1101046/ If you are building a `traditional` car that means different things to different people but for me its NOT 4 bars, at either end. Hairpins front and ladder bar rear, you can go coil over but buggy spring would be my choice for a trad build. Both the hairpins and ladder bars are proven simple approaches that work. For a front axle I bought my last one from Okie Joe outright, its really nice and they are a great family business. As the frame in your pics already has been modded as per your pic below and those 392s are HEAVY, do your sums as when you start adding up fixing your current frame and everything you need it might pay to look at buying a complete rolling chassis from someone like RJays who can build it to your exact requirements and he is an Alliance Vendor. Whilst a big spend it will get you much further into your project much quicker and you wll have a safe high quality basis for your car. https://rjays.com/shop/ols/products...lete-rolling-chassis-with-drop-axle-front-end
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