Technical Tie rod clearance on a 27 T build?

I have a pretty old Speedway frame front axle / kit I bought at least 25 years ago used.

I'm finally getting back on making it into something.
I'd like to have the tierod behind the axles not in front as it came.

I have ford spindles with non bolt on arms on a spring behind tube axle with hairpins .
Spring on a perch .

It appears I can run the tie rod through the hair pins

My question is how much clearance do I need above it between it and the frame ???


I have no idea what the travel will be on one of these .
It's a basic t bucket type front set up with what ever spring speedway would have sold.
Jumping on the front dosent give me much travel




SBC for now. Maybe a 4 cylinder later .

Ignore the brackets for the moon tank it was never driven like that and there coming off.

 

So, basically, you're going to swap sides with the spindles. A picture of the backs of the spindles would help. How was the drag link going to connect?

 

Drag link will connect to a bolt arm on the top on the upper holes side steer with reversed corvair steering box .

Yes plan was to flip the spindles.
Bend as needed .
My arms have two holes per side .
I assume the hole closest to the king pin is the ideal one for the tie rod .
Square back spindles. Not sure of year .

Just don't want the frame to bottom out on tie tod on a big bump.

Haven't decided on friction or the shocks . I have both . Untill I decide on grill and radiator I won't decide.

Plan is get the tie rod mocked up so I can order it then get the steering working so I can proceed on the rest

 

It looks like the rod ends are welded on. Where is the adjustment?

 

It's just conduent that was used for mock up years ago and moving it around . It won't be used.

I expect the length will be different after arms are bent downward and such.

Looking for the average suspension travel a T has with the basic Tbucket type spring most of the speedway type kits had .
I'd like to run the tie rod through the hair pin .

 

The travel depends on how stiff you make the front spring. Road cars alow 3-4 inches if bump travel (ride hight to maximum upward wheel travel) and around 2-3 inches of droop. A hotrod system with a stiffer spring should be about 2.5-3 inches of bump and 2 inches droop. To check clearences disconnect the spring and jack the wheel through this travel

 

Thanks I'm just trying to get a rough idea of about what normal bump travel Is on most of the Ts have .
I might be OK at 3" but 4" I think I'd likely hit .

I imagine speedway sold thousands of these kits and front ends over the years figured guys would have a rough idea .


I realize the spring , weight of car and everthing factors in .

I'd hate to heat and bend the arms and find out it's a no go .

I could add a spacer between the spring and perch to raise it up if needed but the frame height and rake is pretty good now.

 

The more I look at this the more I fear it's a no go.

The arms are about 5" from the king pin center . With the spring behind the axles it looks like the tie rod would hit the shackles. And I'm only seeing about 2.75" frame clearance .

I know I have seen rear tie rods on spring behind axle with hair pins before . Not sure how they did it.

 

Not what you're asking but with the position of the spring mounting at the back of the batwing you might have some interference when the tie rod arcs forward one side on turns. You might find you'll be needing those second holes! Easy enough to check first without alteration.

Chris

 

You should have bump stops to prevent metal to metal contact if it bottoms out. With the axle sitting on the bump stops there should still be a bit of clearance between the tie rod and anything else. Be sure to check it with the wheels at full lock as well as straight ahead.

 

Yea I was looking at were the second set of holes would put the tie rod.

I was hoping this would be simple.
I don't get a lot of time to work on it.
Decided its going to get worked on or sold and got it In the shop.
I didn't want to redesign everything. That said its not exactly what I'd build if I was making a new frame and suspension.

I could bend the arms outward untill they almost hit the brakes and just run it in front. It really scubs a tire the way it is when turning.
Ackerman is way off as is.

 

I have the same sort of situation on my 1917 roadster pickup. I have been looking at dropped arms which Speedway sells but have not bought any. My front end has a 4 link setup. I am going to bend the tie rod arm down and move them so they point back. I plan on trying to get the tierod as close to the bottom link as possible. Might have to notch the frame to make it all work this is what I'm working with. The frame is from the late 70's
and it was just bolted together to move. it's all wrong in this picture

 

I thought about that but with the axle out in front there is no great place for a bump stop.
I'm all ears for ideas or examples .

I'm wishing more and more I had this on a A frame with spring over the axle. Not in the cards right now.

 

This is my old coupe. It had MG lever action shocks. No bump stops. close to 30,000 miles. Never came close to needing a bump stop.

 

You are over thinking this. Not that much spring travel. Look at a conventional axle with the spring above and not behind the axle. How much can it possibly travel? The same principle will apply to one with the spring behind. Bolt everything together and tweak where necessary.

 

Looks like this car has about what I need . Went under the hair pin not through it .

I know there is are dropped tie rod ends Speedway sells .
Not digging the spacer.

Guess get the spindles flipped and see what will work or not

 

The T I am building right now was purchased from Speedway in 1995, I borrowed a friends fairly current "assembly manual", here is the page pertaining to your issue.

 

Wait a minute.......the entire front suspension goes up and down as a unit when encountering bumps, holes or dips. The relationship between tie rod and wishbones doesn't change, at least mine doesn't.

 

I have run them both thru and under the wishbones depending on how things matched up. The one with WW has the tie rod under the wishbones due to a lower arch spring. It has Ford spindles with the arms heated and bent; never gave me any trouble.

The one with the Fenton wheels was run thru the hairpins as this car had a higher arched spring; never noticed it happening but there were slight marks in the paint on the bottom of the frame.

The extra length your combination of a L/H and R/H drive spindle should give you plenty of room to go below and clear the spring shackles.

Remember the tie rod swings up as it moves left and right; check your clearance lock to lock.

 

It not the wish bone I'm concerned with its hitting the frame above it.

With the caster the tie rod does move up and down some as you trun.

 

Thanks

You know it occurred to me it was strange both spindles had two holes.

Never even thought about there being a RH drive option .
Don't think I have ever seen one besides mine now that I think about it .

I have some aftermarket spindles with no arms but wanted to use them on my 30 PU if I ever get this 27 moving under its own power .

Learned something.

Nice T's you posted .

 

Those arms look a bit longer than stock ??
Does yours have that style of flat bolt on arms ?

Looking like I don't need as much clearance as I thought .

I think I bought my frame and stuff at a swap in about 97 and it was not near new. Has coil springs in the rear and standard tube shocks.
I'm keeping that for now .
No coil overs .
It has signs of maybe a Mustang box under the frame at one time . Had no box in it when I got it . ( I'm sticking a reversed corvair in it )

I actually bought it because it had a 57 vette rearend in it with a pozi carrier. Likely worth as much as paid for it all.

Thanks.

 

I have 50k miles on my T , steering is side delivery tie rod behind axle , through hairpins . I have 1 1/2" clearance between tie rod & frame , less when wheels are at full lock , while I have scraped the paint on the tie rod , its never caused a problem . The total up & down travel of the front axle is 3/4" compression 1" drop . If I have time I could take a picture.

To the OP , if you'd like to be rid of your old steering box , tell me what you have to have for it.
Its a simple car , don't over think it . ( many of us already have done that,)

 

Mustang box is long gone.
The Corvair is going into the car .

Been looking at more pictures and it's more obvious I don't need a lot of clearance .
I'll flip the spindles and see were I'm at .

The new speed way frames run it right under the frame between the hair pin .
up frame and axle is about the same . As long as my arms let the tie rod clear the bat wing and schacles I should be able to make it work.
If not ill run the aftermarket spindels and arms

 

Ahhhhhhhh Got it. I had to do an elongated "C" [about 8 inches long] to the bottom of my frame to clear tie rod, drag link etc etc.

 

You will be fine flipping them back around to the RIGHT direction behind the axle. Worst case scenario you use dropped tie rod ends to move the tierod down.

 

If you end up needing to go with bolt on arms, Pete & Jakes list extra long arms (#1107-EL).

These are forged and can be heated and bent to suit.

They are made to use with spring behind set-ups (suicide) like yours; just don't know how they would compare in length to the "long" arms on your square-backs.

 

I was looking at those last night
Thanks .

 

Thanks
I figured Lots of others have done this and stuff had to be avaliable.
I have other spindles if IT gets to that and I can just buy some arms .


Eye balling it the tie rod would be close to hitting the bat wings.
Either way the spindles are coming off .

My main concern was not knowing what suspension travel to expect.
Seems 2.5" would suffice.

A foot of snow coming down so I'm out of the shop for awhile dealing with snow .

 

Well after about 4 hours I managed to get the king pin out of the axle ( never should have left this out side for 25 years) and flipped the spindles around so the arms face the rear .
The arms are about the right height to put the tie rod through the hair pins BUT the the tie rod will hit the shackles if I turn .

One of my spindles is for a RH drive car so the arms both have two holes for cross steering. Great I'll use the second hole further back
BUT the taper in the hole for the tie rod is opposite of the front hole putting the tierod end on top .

So my question is can a ream the taper in from the opposites side part way in and run the rod end on the bottom . I have the proper tapered reamer . I'm just not sure if there will be enough support with the hole only partially tapered the right direction .
Probably not a good idea to weld up the hole and Redhill and taper ??

I'm guessing that those flat bar steering arms speedway uses must be longer than stock.
I'd rather not use those and heim joints and gave to cut my arms off.

I have a set of aftermarket steer arms ( look cast ) and there to short to clear the shackles and bat wings also .