Projects 1949 Plymouth Business coupe Fame upgrade

I posed an inappropriate question for this forum regarding a upgrade for a 1949 Plymouth chases. Many of you took the time to answer in great detail on how to do that using the original frame, but it appears the whole post was booted. Just want to say thanks.

 

Can we discuss this? That chassis is an independent front end, aframes/coils/king pins etc. I didn't see the original but have a question as to how it was presented. If it was about 'unmentionalble little Ford parts and pieces', then I understand. But how does one go about asking about upgrading a Hamb-era IFS? Ask in general terms, such as how can I make this beast handle better?, maybe. Not asking for me, as I'll never 'improve' a Mopar suspension, they're good as-is!

 

Read the HAMB rules, take the knowledge that @gimpyshotrods took the time to post pics and inform you, and have a better car

 

Guess I wasn't clear. What I really want to know is, why was the question not HAMB friendly? The car is. So if he asked how to improve the suspension, nothing specific. Would it be OK? Did he specifically call out a M2? If so I understand. Trying to be clear so that other posters can be advice, not canceled. I'm fine.

 

In all honesty, the 1949 Plymouth frame is already cutting edge for the period. Easy to keep it HAMB appropriate by doing a simple front brake swap and going to a new(er) rear axle with new leafs. Unless your problem is steering, in which case you'll have to get a little creative to solve, but lots of room to work with relative to some cars *cough* Model Ts *cough*.

~Peter

 

This is my sons car. He is autistic and when he makes his mind up thats all there is but, i will pass this on. I never read the rules as i assume they are all just telling us to treat each other with respect which is never a problem. I understand the question was out of place but there were long detailed answered with photos showing me how to keep the same chases but upgrade it as my son desires. Now tha i have read your rules i see i have no further interest here.,

 

...if you think about it, we shouldn't be putting disc brakes on traditional cars, almost no one did this pre-65...

 

At least on the 46-8 the front shocks go from upper to lower A Arms, if still in effect on the '49s a bracket is welded to the frame to relocate the shock upper mouint where they are of some use....

 

Check out the P15/D24 forum for excellent guidance.

 

I saw a very neat front '51 Dodge clip swap done a few years ago. The parts came from a 6-letter Mopar that begins with a V and ends with an E. Same source gave up the power train and rear.

 

Yes, upgrade would have been fine, but I read the first post before it was gone.
Can we leave it at that?

Hence my comments (that @gimpyshotrods put the the time into)

 

I've asked about the disc brake on my Merc once and the thread got also deleted. So there you go....

 

Not to seem insensitive, but do you really think your Son is best qualified to be making the suspension/safety decisions?
Stick around...thee's a lot of chassis gurus here...and if you gently "tap dance" around the rules, you might get some damn good advice.

 

That had crossed my mind as well

 

Maybe it could be taken over to the “Fabrication” section of the Garage Journal. No traditional rules there if I understand correctly.

 

he is probably more qualified than you ot me.

 

Since you’re still here, send a message to gimpy, if you can’t PM yet, I can do it for you. Maybe he’ll be kind enough to send you the info that he posted before.

 

Good answer!!! While there are many levels to autism, in many cases (or subject matter) it's a blessing more than a curse. Good on you for getting him interested and focused, and helping him with his vision!!
Actually, the basic '49 front suspension is not too bad as-is (they were one of the best of the era), so maybe a rebuild and some 'tweaking' will get you where you want to be.
Good luck!

 

For the record, I am ASD Level 1. I am here for you and your son. You can tell him that there is someone out there who is willing to help and advise on this project, that understands who he is as a person, and respects him.

This site has rules. Those are not negotiable.

That said, you can always contact me via private messages about things that are not allowed on the open forum. Private messages are not moderated.

If you choose to do that, I will give you my private contact information.

 

Pre-1966 brakes are great for pre-1966 roads, full of other pre-1966 cars and trucks.

My car and my wife's car each stop in over 45-fewer-feet than your average 1950's and 1960's car.

If she or I have to panic stop, that is 110-feet, 60-0. Can your ride do that? My 1960 Falcon can, because I built it so it could.

Are you willing to gamble with your life, my life, and my wife's life?

Remember, in the second that it takes you to react at 60mph, you went 88-feet. Go out in your yard, measure out 88-feet, and compare that to your following distance. Now look up the stopping distance for your old ride, or test it. Add that to the 88-feet.

Let's assume that your car takes 155-feet to stop from 60mph. 155 + 88 = 243-feet. If you want to stop 1-foot from any of our bumpers, you would need to follow at 134-feet, minimum, assuming your drums don't fade.

Measure out 134-feet in your yard. Compare that to how close you like to follow. Then add another second, and make that 222-feet.

Now do you see where the problem is?

 

Why would one swap an IFS system for another IFS system?

The early DPCD IFS setups, with minor mods are superior to that 70's stuff, no cutting and welding required.

 

Class move Gimpy!

 

Having been involved with four 50 Plymouths ( two I owned and two in the family )
I can say that I would be happy to Romp around all day in city, country, and highway.
Did I say all day? and every day. No fatigue discomfort or stress was ever felt.
Yeah, one of them was even a hot date ride

 

The topic of updated front ends on early MoPars has been covered several times. The search feature on this site is your friend.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/53-dodge-front-suspension.1256314/#post-14387403

 

if someone really wanted to change to ifs, you could use the front subframe of a corvair somehow. they are even hamb era parts.

 

Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, and Desoto cars all had independent front suspension since 1939. Even in that early form, it was a very good system. With a few improvements, it could be an even better front suspension system, capable of hanging with many modern vehicles that still have their standard OEM suspension. That would be dependent of the original 30s & 40s frame and suspension's condition. If the original frame is rusty or bent up toast, or the suspension is missing, something has to be done if the vehicle is intended to be used.

The Corvair front suspension would not be an upgrade to replace the 1939 OEM Plymouth, it would be a huge step backwards.

The rear suspension has narrow leaf springs which would benefit from wider springs, but that pretty much changes most everything in the rear suspension. Might as well upgrade the 3:9 or 4:1 geared rear end with a really crappy brake drum setup, while your changing the rear springs.

The brakes were among the best brakes available in the 40s-50s, but fall way short of the current brakes.

 

Agreed, that would be my opinion as well. It's relatively easy to swap out the 1949 Brakes for the 1955-56 Mopar brakes since they both use similar Kingpin design and geometry. That way you have brakes designed for a V8 and highway speeds but keeping it period correct for this forum.

I believe however, that the OP is more interested in bolt on or catalog parts, in which case they might have better luck on a forum more suited to street rods and modern customs.

 

I've driven a 56 Mopar with OEM style drum brakes, and even the late 60s Mopar "best modern" drum brakes. None of them are capable of braking with the cars that they share the current highways with, none of them!

They might get by with normal driving conditions, but throw in an emergency situation, and they loose. You can drive your car hoping you never encounter an emergency situation if you want, but I'd much rather have a brake system that at least stands a chance if things go south quickly. I drive my stuff on the roads with modern cars and trucks, I don't want my brakes to be a disadvantage.

There hasn't been a front drum brake vehicle that drives on the highways at my place since 1975. Front disc brakes are the first upgrade a vehicle gets at my place. I will continue to do what ever it takes to make that happen.

 

I was at Iola car show years ago and a guy had a 40 Plymouth 4 door sedan. I did too at the time. He had a 350 chevy with the TH 350 trans in it and the rest of the car was bone stock. It was black and the car was just done right. Now with that extra weight I bet you have to add a little more stopping room in addition to your formula. Always nice to know guys that have the knowledge you do. But I couldn't believe how well that combo fit in the 40 Plymouth without cutting it up.