Yes, some sort of suspension....This is what I did, it works well enough for the occasion ride.....and a driveshaft with a slip joint made from 47 Jeep parts...and a home made open drive oil seal conversion...
Thanks. That's actually something i haven't done yet as I have just managed to make my way inside the tank. I'll get back to you with that answer when I can.
I live out in Maryland so no land speed racing here. The plan is to have it street legal and be able to take it to car shows and events in the local area. At the moment, I'm planning on a full canopy that will be easily removable as to have the option to choose how I want to ride in it. Top on or top off. Thanks for the tip on the Torq-set driver bit. They are all over the tank and I'll probably source one of these in the near future. I haven't been to Bonneville but I'd love to. This is an ambitious project for sure, but I enjoy the problem solving that goes with it and overall, really enjoying the process so far and looking forward to all the learning I'll be doing along the way.
Thanks for the thoughts Alan, I've only seen two of these lakesters in person so my experience with what's feasible with these is next to none, but I'm sure it will all get figured out no problem!
For the headlight area I was thinking about trying to recess the headlights and turn signals into the tank to stay true to the contours of the tank. The more I think about it, the more I want to go this route. The horizontal stabilizers are here to stay! I can't get rid of the big tell tale signs this tank is from the legendary Warthog. An open shaft conversion is on the radar for sure unless I can find a torque tube that would work with the 3 speed. I have found a shop that sells the open drive shaft conversion for a banjo rear end, so if I can find an open drive conversion for the 3 speed, i'll get a custom shorty driveshaft made. I don't even know why I said weld the rear axle to the frame, my intention was to weld brackets to the rear axle and bolt those brackets to the frame to allow for removal of the hardtail. I'm used to riding the hardtail motorcycle, so this shouldn't be too different. I'll just air down the tires and get a cushy seat. It's not like it's going to be a daily driver anyway, just a fun vehicle to take me back and forth to shows and whatnot. There will of course be front suspension. At this point, I don't have a torque tube or the rear end, so coming up with a plan before I buy anything and trying to see what would work together. Appreciate all the insight!
I'll look into the water pump suggestion further. Whatever I do, I'm going to try and make it so the engine is as serviceable as possible. Before I weld anything together I'm going to do my best to make things as accessible as possible without removing the engine in it's entirety. I don't want to screw myself over if at all possible lol. The engine supposedly runs well as it sits so I might not be making any changes.
Wasn't a big fan of the silver and chrome either. Had to go darkside with the bike. I love all the "motorcycle wave" all the bikers do to eachother. Riding is a blast. My 600cc is pretty much an around-town bar hopper but can do highway speeds around 65-70 fairly well. I changed the rear tooth sprocket to assist in highway speeds but the bike is still SCREAMING at that speed. Definitely an experience.
JMHO but if you've got your mind set on a rigid rear end, why complicate things by trying to use a banjo? The center section will be inside the tank, so just use a rear end that will fit and mate it to the open driveline Merc trans.
Not sure why I said weld the rear to the frame. My intention was to weld brackets to the rear end and bolt the brackets to the frame. Would be hard-tailed, but removable. My motorcycle is a hardtail so it shouldn't be too different. I'll just do what I always do and keep the tires aired down a bit. There would be front suspension, but then again I can't imagine this getting driven too much. Really to shows and on nice days, the occasional ride to work and weekends. I'll just make sure to get a comfy seat cushion. Not like it will be a daily driver! An independent rear suspension is something I haven't actually thought so I'll be sure to do some research into this. Rear suspension would be a nice luxury.
It's a great bike, and has been an awesome first bike to learn to ride on. Pretty cool to say my first ever motorcycle was one I built myself... I've never even rode on a motorcycle with a proper motorcycle rear tire. I'd have to say this build is perfectly on-topic with the spirit of HAMB with regards to creating and modifying hot rods and classics. This build fits right in lol... Cheers mate! Looking forward to sharing my progress with everyone here.
It would be a haul, but there's land speed trials in Loring Maine. But then you'd need a ton of safety stuff....
An alternative suspension would be a swing arm/engine cradle set-up, like Little Red Wagon or Kent Fuller's Magicar FED. The engine/trans/diff all swing together on a pivot. Lots of unsprung weight, but better than no suspension at all. In Gaithersburg, there was Bob Rizzoli, of RCD. He built a more sophisticated version of this as a drag car. (Mercedes!) If Bob is still around he could be a great resource, but I don't know him.
Coolness. And I really like the direction you're (mentally) headed with frenching the lights. Like the pic posted by Squirrel above, it is sooooo reminescient of the P-38 cockpit pod. The fact that you're keeping that iconic rear stab will really make this an eye-catching build. Well, if you're going to solid-mount the rear, it's conceivable that you could make it without driveshaft. Convert the trans for a u-joint that matches whatever rear you use, and slip them together on a single u-joint, or even just a slip yoke of some type, as long as you don't have an angular mismatch between the trans output and the pinion. (The U-joint connection would help in that regard.) Make the engine mounts so they'll slide a few inches, in order to dis-engage the yoke/u-joint, and you shorten the package while keeping some reasonable method of removal for service to the major components. ('Course, that only works if you rear-mount the engine..) I wondered if you had made a slip-of-the-tongue, so to speak. I also wonder if you couldn't incorporate some kind of bushing into your mounting. Either rubber or poly. That would give you a tiny bit of suspension and working room for any mounting mis-alignment. Just my thoughts.....Roger
Two belly tankers racing on Bridlington beach hit a cross rut that developed in the sand side by side, solid rear ends launched them way up in the air, I bet that hurt! My racer has around 3" of rear suspension and I faired a lot better although I was off the seat for a bit. Just something to think about if on the street, joints in the surface and such. I clipped this still of another run over the rut from a video and he's on the way down here! That's me in my racer beside the truck top right
Maryland is not that far from LSR at Loring ME. People have come to race from Florida .The world's fastest sit on motorcycle record was set at Loring by a man from Florida at 311 MPH.
A non sprung rear axle on this vehicle is a lot different than a hard tail cycle. The difference is un-sprung weight. In this vehicle your un-sprung weight way, way more than on a cycle.
If your vehicle stays below 130 you need just a Snell rated helmet in a non convertible.....I do not know if this 130 class is valid for a vintage car... Loring Timing Association rules can be seen on their website... I race there and still have current speed records on a vintage Triumph bike..The constant changing often gusty winds and weather can present challanges... I would like see a few street driven traditional hot rods running there...
Got home from work this morning and decided it was time to get this tank split in two. Tool of choice? Sawzall. I laid out a couple towels to protect myself from some sharp edges and hopped in the tank and laid down belly first. Was barely able to squeeze my arms in through the center under the main support structure where the tank would hang from the Warthog's bomb racks. I was able to (very uncomfortably I might add) stretch and reach far enough forward inside the tank to get the forward baffle sliced through horizontally. I first started the cuts from the outside before hopping in the tank to cut from the inside out. It was very loud in there lol. For all those pesky Torq-set screws, I've been taking the cutting wheel to them and giving them the flat-tip conversion. Now that the tank is finally split in two, I'll finish gutting out the tank next time I can make my way out into the garage. I have to say that I cut the tank in the perfect locations for separation with regards to the front nose cone and the rear end before the horizontal stabilizers. Almost time to get started on the frame. Good times ahead! I was able to take a proper measurement of the tank and the outside diameter is right at 22 inches. I didn't take a measurement of the wall thickness of the tank, but the inside diameter looked to sit right between 21 - 5/8" to 21 - 7/8". The 1950 Mercury Flathead should JUST fit inside with around an inch or so of room to spare but that will depend on how I can get the frame situated inside the tank. I'll be picture heavy in this build. One thing that bugs me in a lot of build blogs is lack of pictures to tell the whole story so I hope you all don't mind. I love documentation when it comes to stuff like this so there will be pictures aplenty. It's almost frame time!
Was able to take a proper measurement this morning. The outside diameter of the tank comes in right at 22 inches at it's widest. I didn't take a measurement of the tanks wall thickness, but the inside diameter looked to be around 21 - 5/8" to 21 - 7/8' thick. The 1950 Mercury Flathead I picked up should JUST fit inside with maybe an inch to spare. We'll see how it lines up after I get the frame pieced together.
What type of chassis are you going to make? That may make or break it as you will run out of room fast. You will need to work out how much room you need first, mine is 36'' at the widest point...still tight. JW
Planning on 2x3 1/8" steel channel stock at this point. With my welding skill level it will be easier to weld rectangles and square shapes as opposed to a round tube chassis. I'm not a big fan of welding round objects. I'll also be able to use the garage floor and the flat shape of the 2x3 rectangles to help me keep a rectangular chassis straight and level as I put it together... I also think the chassis I create will be of higher quality and I can make sure it is as symmetrical as I can. Since I've only got 22 inches of space, less than that for the chassis since it will be located lower, I'll be sure to take plenty of measurements. The tank is 14 feet long, so the wheel-base should come in somewhere around 11-12 feet in length.
I did this P-38 with similar power train as you are planning. It took 2 sets of T rails for the frame. Packaging of the necessities to make it complete, takes some juggling. Good luck with your project.
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