Joe Panek of Roto-Faze in Torrance CA made some cam blanks for me about 20 years ago. I think he is still in business. His last known email is: j.panek@roto-faze.com
Might need a long distance calling card... https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/r-i-p-joe-panek.1052902/page-5 And I thought I heard Larry Brumfield passed also. the list of talent lost is staggering. John
No, is an option I have a broken one here, the drilled hole takes away about 10% of the journal cross section. And the 1.5 dia journal is not anywhere big enough to amke any power. John
Dan, It looks like since Tom sold the company, the only option is a fully drilled crank. I have a copy of the catalog somewhere with the option. Still plenty good for a moderate motor, John
For those of us with old blocks that we would like to convert to insert bearings and full pressure oiling. What are the options for cranks and rods?
It depends on what you are going to use it for. Get your hands on Jim Brierley's book 4 Bangers and Me. It is the best $40 you can spend. (might only be $35, but you know, inflation). I like the Ford "C" cranks if street car, weld the flange, cross drill for oil and grind. Ford "B" rods to match, insert bearings, ARP nuts and rebush the top. AER made a nice Forged rod, not sure if still available, reasonable cost. Of course, the Burtz motor is a really good deal if you are starting from scratch. If you want to go full on racing, lakes or salt, a girdled, billet bottom end is hard to beat. Bring cash, lots of cash. John
All of the cranks that I have broken have been crossdrilled with A rod journals. This engine could be resurrected with a new crank and a set of bearings. This is a B block, and if I were to do it, I would go with a counter weighted B crank (some call them C) with dipper rods. No pressure to the rods. I have a new set of Crower B rods that I would use. The Ruterford OHV head that was on this engine will go on the Burtz that I'm building now. It has a 80cc combustion chamber. Both engines have modified piston pin location to lower the compression ratio to 9;1. So this engine is destine for another OHV build. Maybe a Gemsa. I have 2 more Burtz blocks and a girdled block to build first. Who knows? .
Like John said, it depends on what you will be doing to it. I ran a stock B with .040" over pistons, babbit bearings, stock oiling system modified for full oil filtration, ported intake and exhaust, stock valves, Brierly 1A cam, 7.5 :1 compression, and dual Stromberg 97's. The motor came out of a commercial truck with unknown miles on it. I put new pistons and rings in it. It needed to be bored as the cylinders had @ .010" of "belly" in them. I didn't have the time for that, so I just broke the glaze and threw it together. I ran it hard on the street, took it down the 1/8th and 1/4 mile strips, and ran several hill climbs with it. It used a lot of oil. I got @ 10,000 miles on it before a rod bearing loosened up on me at a drag race I was at. Still drove it home. These things are very reliable to @ 90 HP. If I recall correctly, Jim ran babbit in his lakes engine with splash rods. You can still run dip oiling to the rods with insert too. Just modify the block for inserts and pressure to the mains That's what I would do if I were building a mild flat head. My 2 cents .
Dan, if memory serves, Jim ran Babbitt mains and Eubanks rods, pressurized. diesel babbitt job? He didn't turn it all that fast, but the turbo made some pretty good torque. I think about 168 mph on fuel. That motor has been "benched" as in under, latest build is girdled, billet, carrillo's and a larger turbo. J
In light of Dans problems with cranks fill me in on what you know of Aluminium flywheels. With my rutherford late B motor I have been useing a lightened stock flywheel with extra bolts. Its more a compitition motor and a bit twitchy for street use I have run it up too above 120mph on several ocassions but do worry about the flywheel breaking free and what it would do. Anyone care to share their experiences?
Thanks for the reply. I’m just trying to gather info as of right now. I was just informed not only did I have rotator cuff surgery but my bicep was relocated as well. I won’t be doing much work on my little Model B for a while it seems. I really like the Burtz option but I have a couple B engines, possibly a 3rd and my Truck is a Model B. My initial engine build will be a flathead but I’d like to build the lower end to accommodate a OHV head. I have no idea what cranks are already in my engines but I suppose I should keep a look out for “C” cranks. I’m still unclear about the stock rods but I assume they can be modified for an insert bearing. Are there aftermarket options for rods and cranks? In the meantime I’ll follow the monthly Banger thread.
RussTee, I have run Alum flywheels on a few motors, I like them but they do have the tendancy to want to loosen up even with 8 bolts. For street car, a lightened flywheel is good if the material is removed from the correct place(s). My preference is to use the Ford "C" counter weighted cranks. As I mentioned before, I weld up the flange/seal area and machine for the 2 pc seal. This seems to help keep the flywheel flange connected to the rest of the crank. I'll find a picture of the stock seal area and show why they break. For the all out race motors, where you can use a push truck, no flywheel just a in/out box coupling. Think about this, at Bonneville you run 3 miles or more. At 180 mph, it takes 20 seconds to traverse a mile. We run pretty close to 7k revs for that time not to mention the first two miles. Most hill climb runs are around 10 seconds, quarter mile runs 16-18 seconds for perspective. Pic here is an "A" journal, drilled and busted. Somewhere I did the calculations about the oil hole taking about 10% of the cross section of the journal. That is a ton of strength out of a marginal journal. John
This is a stupid question but, we went to check/set the timing by "the book". I noticed when we set the timing pin and popped the distributor cap that the trailing edge of the rotor was at the #1 point, which just seems wrong. Went through the process and ended up the same and definitely and didnt improve anything. I must be doing something wrong. The whole process is pretty simple. I'm starting to think my personal timing lever is all the way in the up position.
John- might not be the reduction in area of the journal, but a stress riser in the fillet on the side of the rod journal. The oil hole comes pretty close to the corner of the journal. Just food for thought.
Link to March! https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/marching-forward-1-2-4-3-banger-time.1286780/
I never had it on a Dyno, but based on reverse engineering my ET and Speed data, I figured @ 95 HP. .
Same as above, but may with a 6.5:1 head and less carbs. I'm running a 6.5 head with a single Stromberg 48 in my coupe and it goes just fine. .
Ish HP is close enough, just trying to get a gauge on what you considered the limit of a stock bottom end. How drivable was the 7.5:1? What is the reason for going with a 6.5:1 this time instead?
Dan, I would agree with you, the pic makes it look like the drilled hole gets too close to the journal radius. However, this is not the case, see the pic below, it is not near the intersection (radius area) My point initially is that IF the hole is not in the journal to cause a stress riser, the length of the journal can withstand (deform and absorb) the flex/movement stresses. Chances are that if the hole was drilled more to the center of the journal, it could have survived.(?) Thank You for the input here, as always your opinion is welcome and appreciated. Best regards, John
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