Projects Tim's (aka anothercarguy) 1938 Ford Club Cabriolet Build Thread

Merry Christmas! Still following along.

 

Merry Christmas!
I'm still following also.

 

Just found this thread !
Very nice pics of your exellent work!…….I’m following this for sure!

Merry Christmas!

 

Work on the '32 became a 7 month long project...but it's pretty much done. I'm just waiting for one more part to be delivered followed by an hour of install time and it will officially become the road warrior I intended it to be at time of purchase (Woohoo!!).

In between waiting for parts on the '32, I would occasionally tinker away on the '38 but wasn't making any real progress. Now that the '32 is pretty much done, I'm back on the '38. To be honest, I was struggling with and not looking forward to the next task which was installing the hood top. I'm not sure of the correct way to do it, but I chose to install the hinges to the cowl and then the hood to the hinges. Frankly, each time I went through the install/removal process, it felt like I was wrestling an octopus! I kept thinking I'm glad this thing is not in paint yet (note to self, once painted I really need to find (or hire) a/some friend(s) to be the spare set of hands during re-assembly after paint). Anyway, each time I assembled/disassemble/re-assembled the combo...it never seemed to fit right nor could the previous results/adjustments be consistently replicated.

Having admired the hood fit on Tony's (aka @X38 ) sloper project, I reached out and asked the secret to his success...he responded...new SS hinges! My old hinges were tweaked, loose/sloppy but tight at the same time (I know that doesn't make sense, but they were loose on the bench and tight and in bind when bolted to the cowl and hood). I had been working away to try and hammer on the rivets, bend and tweak the arms, enlarging the mounting holes to gain adjustment etc. to get the fit better. I was trying everything I could short of resorting to full disassembly/welding up holes/re-riveting etc..

So, I found someone (Grump's Garage) that still had those little shiny SS hinges in stock and on the shelves (getting harder to find these days) and that was willing to ship to Canada (which is also becoming a chore) and placed the order.

Tony's advice was on the money! With the new hinges installed (still had to wrestle the octopus) and after a few adjustments (which required minor hole enlargement), the hood top fits pretty well, opens and closes smoothly, and lands in the same place each time the hood is opened and closed. I taped a couple "shims" along the cowl to replicate the thickness of the hood lacing once installed (after paint) and made a few minor side to side shifts to the front fenders and grill to get everything matching up pretty well. There is a reasonably consistent overall gap between the hood and the cowl and the "beak" of the hood lands pretty much on the center of the grille. I'm pleased with the results. I will now go about adding the small lower braces to the inner fenders and generally firm everything up front before working on fitting the hood side panels.

 

Nice work as always!!

 

I'm glad to be able to share the pain of birth with someone, nothing like a shared experience! I can see from some welds and notes you've written on the cowl that we share more than hinge issues. I'd like to say it's satisfying when things start to come together, but for me it's more simply a relief! Great work.

 

I really am enjoying your work on the 1938 along with your methods and details that seem to make what looks difficult easier. Been following your thread since day one and subscribed with alerts.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comment on Grump's Garage as a good bunch to work with as a Canadian. I was trying to find the Bob Drake top latch kit for a 40 Ford convertible by doing random searches by part numbers long after they were out of stock everywhere. Grump's Garage surfaced on one search after about 1-1/2 years of trying and they confirmed they had one set left. We both acknowledged that it may be the last set available on the planet. I asked if Grump's if they would ship it through the US Post Office. He said no problem and got a rate well below the US Post Office estimator. I check in once in a while to see what they have and if the parts are on sale.. Another good one is Sullivan's garage to work with and their prices often are lower than the going rate especially if they have a sale. I got a set of 40 Ford running boards on sale for far less than Drakes and great price on the complete trunk handle lock assembly.

 

Coming on great. My hinges are super sloppy, and I thought i'd resolved it by buying some second hand but new hinges. Looked at them the other day, and they're junk, the rear arm on one side will hit the cowl, and the other side doesn't swing fully, hitting the body mount, guess that's why they were for sale. Really annoys me that people sell their 'junk' to make a buck of another hot rodder, its not the first time i've bought parts in good faith to find out they are trash. Anyway, just looked at Grumps, they've sold out. Anyone know of any other good hinges? '

 

On my '39 convertible I tried to rebuild original Ford hinges, bought Bob Drake Repos, nothing helped fix the hood fit problem. Finally tracked down some NOS Ford hinges, instant success. In comparing the NOS hinges to the repos, you could see that the arms are no where near being correct in shape.

 

Thanks for the positive comments guys...

Joe's Antique Auto (https://www.joesantiqueauto.com/) was still showing stock when I was looking but he no longer ships to Canada which I found disappointing as I had purchased quite a number of items from him over the years and always found he had good stock at fair prices and had options for shipping. I just noticed @neilswheels that you're in the U.K. so Joe's may not be of value to you either. Perhaps you could find someone/friend in the US that could act as a forwarding service?

I've heard a number of people that weren't happy with the fit of the regular steel hinges, but the stainless steel hinges seem to be of better quality. The ones that I got were made in the USA by Vintique.

 

I'd be interested in photos of the NOS vs reproductions to see how far off they are. Is there any chance of using the NOS hinges as patterns to tweak the repos into shape?

 

@neilswheels I sent you a private message on the hinges that may help.
Glenn

 

The Picture below shows where the "beak: of the hood lands. The trim on the hood sits equally proud on both sides of the lower grille center bar so I think that's as good as can be expected.

The cross brace and hood latch bracket was installed to help triangulate and add rigidity at the top of the fenders. It will likely be modified in the future when I install a different style (VW) latch but for now I'll leave it in place for the added rigidity it provides.

The lower angled brackets tie the inner fenders to the frame also adding additional rigidity to the front sheet metal. I had to modify mine (within the area of the black circle) as I had moved the front crossmember forward one set of rivet holes. The radiator support bracket was also modified as part of the crossmember being moved.

And, the driver side lower bracket that also required slight modification (within the black circle) for the moved crossmember. On both sides, the lower ear of the brackets were cut off, the angles reconfigured, removed or added a bit of metal as required, tacked them together while bolted in place and then removed them for final welding.

Lastly, a relief cut toward the font of the inner fender is still visible within the red circle. I made that cut to help relieve the stress in that area of the panel which allowed better front sheet metal alignment. This wasn't surprising considering how badly bashed the inner fender was before I hammered it back mostly into shape. Now that I have most pieces (still have hood side panels to fit) in place, I need to weld up the relief cut.

 

Next project is fitting the hood side panels, but before starting on them, I wanted to get the grille fitting a bit better. Specifically on the passenger side at the top. The grille pulled away and down from the fenders in this area. I had tried making adjustments between the grille and fenders, tried opening it up on the flange using the stretcher (didn't work well due to the support spot welded on the underside) and even hit it a bit with hammer and dolly...but it simply wasn't moving.


So I finally decided to stop ignoring with hope that it would go away and get serious making real adjustments. After removing the grille I split the top and side flanges with a cut-off wheel and opened them up to where they needed to be.

I then added slivers of steel to take up the gap created.

I also had to split and open up the reinforcing panel on the bottom side and re-weld it in the new location.

After a bit of grinding the fit between the grille and fender is much better and I can start fitting the hood side panels.

 

The more old cars you build, the less scared you are to cut one up. My current project is requiring just as much cut/weld for panel fit as it needs for rust repair. It's a T touring with the shell from three sources, and every door from a different source.

I'm not building an AMBR contender, but I want everything to fit at least as good as Henry had it. Maybe a touch better, since these old Fords were originally put together with a lot of "good enough".

 

In a weird parallel universe, mine was off in the same location. (among others!)
Really nice fix.

 

Indeed...I think there was a lot of "good enough" and "you can only see one side at a time" from the Ford factory!

Interesting that yours was the same! Thanks for the positive comments.

Time for another small update, I decided to attack the "easy side" of the hood. After having the hood side panel on and off what seemed to be about 2-300 times during the process...one of the decisions I made was that ol' Henry's method of attaching the hood side panels needed improvement. I could see that once painted, taking the panels off and putting them back without chipping and scratching paint was going to be difficult at best and nearly impossible at worst. Henry used a couple of double sided threaded studs along with a couple of "saddles" in addition to bolting the front of the panel to the grille bar and the rear to an "L" bracket at the hinge. The order seemed to require holding the panel with the front lowered, slipping it under the peak of the grille center bar, and then guiding down over the studs and into the saddles while keeping it from scratching or banging into any of the (imaginary at this point) paint. Here's the panel in place looking from the inside.
The above shows the 2 studs (front and back of the panel) and the 2 saddles in the center. The photo below shows the left side stud and saddle without the hood panel in place. The "anti-rattle/anti-scuff" of the saddle is accomplished via small piece of rubber hose slipped over the outside of the u-shaped saddle. The square shoulder of the studs, and the head of the carriage bolts that hold on the saddles are accommodated on the hood panel via recesses.

The area of the hood that slips over the stud is supposed to look like the following photo.

At some point in the 85 year history of this car, one of the previous owners obviously got frustrated with Henry's system of attachment as well, as there were holes added to where the saddles were supposed to be (so presumably the saddles were replaced with bolts) and they had crudely "enlarged" the front stud mounting area.

I decided to keep the rear most stud and replace all the other attachments with simple bolts or button head allen screws. This however meant the recesses should be eliminated to allow the panel to fit flush with the fenders. I started on the rear most recess by cutting out the recessed area and fabricating a piece to replace it.
I didn't get a before photo of the next area/issue...so I'll try and describe it in conjunction with the following photo that shows the panel after I removed the offending issue. The flair out at the bottom of the hood panel where it was supposed to meet the fender was about 1/4" too low and had a large side gap as well. I tried moving the steel with the hammer and dolly, but because of the compound shape of the panel, it wasn't cooperating. Given I wanted to remove the recessed areas anyway, I decided to cut the lower 2" off the panel and start fresh. This allowed me to easily hammer and dolly the flair of the hood panel up to meet the height of the fender and to incorporate the additional width required to allow the hood to meet the fender with the fabricated replacement piece.
After cutting the section out, I made a hammer form from scrap hardwood and cut and sandwiched a piece of 18 gauge steel and hammer formed the new edges.

Once the new flange was formed and welded into place, the hood fit much better with the fender and grille.

I still need to finish up the fit at the cowl which required a couple relief cuts to allow the cowl to match the profile of the hood side panel.

And lastly, a photo with the panel in place with the hood closed. The left side is going to be much more work...stay tuned.

 

Really nice fix in a tricky area.

 

Thanks Tony...aiming for something like this

 

Looks good! Well thought out and executed!

 

Thanks Sam.

 

It's been a few weeks since my last update...and I've finally made enough progress that it's worthwhile to post. I've been working on fitting up the left hood side panel. I had been thinking (and worrying) about it for awhile. The issue stemmed from the poor fit of the left front fender to the cowl. I had posted a question about it earlier and the advice at the time was to wait until all the supporting brackets were installed and the front sheet metal was fully adjusted to optimize the fit. Good advice, but it still fit very poorly. and nothing I was able to do seemed to close the 3/8" gap.


I then went back to some of my earlier photos taken when we first purchased the car. I don't have the best pics of the area, but based on what I could see, I'm not sure the hood or fenders ever seemed to fit very well.
It was time to take a more drastic approach. I made a template of the arch of the inside top of the fender in the area where it was supposed to meet the cowl, and then turned that into a new fender flange.
I then laid the new flange on top of the fender to mark the area to be removed and ran a cut-off wheel a little further to allow part of the original flange to "relax" against the cowl.

A little time behind the welding helmet, followed by some face shield time to grind and finish the weld followed by more time with the hammer and dollies yielded a much better fit.

I then realized that I hadn't gone quite far enough forward with my new fender flange and it resulted in a pretty harsh transition. Again, out came the cut off wheel to allow the transition area to better blend into the desired shape.

I then made the same changes to the hood side fastening system as the right side. I cut some of the recessed areas out and moved them to other locations which appeared they may have previously been cut with a beaver and then cracked as well. The bottom line, over the past few weeks, I had the left side panel on and off the car about 100 times (I was going to say a million, but didn't want to seem like I was exaggerating!). At the end of the day, I'm pretty happy with the fit of the panel.

I also added a couple more fender bolts to "help" clamp the fender to the cowl. I did this on both the left and the right side. I figured, just because Henry decided they weren't necessary (or was too cheap to add them), no reason I couldn't or shouldn't. I made a quick bracket to back up the cowl, tacked it into place and drilled a couple extra holes for the additional nuts and bolts. That really seemed to help pull the fenders and cowl together.

That's all the updates I have for now. For my next task, I may transition my efforts to the rear axle housing, rebuilding the pumpkin, switching the Lincoln Versailles rear disc brakes to drum etc. I'll continue documenting the progress.

 

I'm glad someone lives in a parallel universe.
I like the extra bolts and reinforcing in the cowl too. Good idea.

 

Great documentation of a difficult repair with great results! Nice clear pictures made it easy to see what you had to deal with. I will be dealing with that same cowl area soon but my problem appears to be the cowls shape, not the fender.

 

I did what carguy did, but now that it's all in primer - and the door is too which I have yet to show - I have determined that my cowl cheek has too much crown lower down! Result is that a both the door and cowl curve into the door gap forming a valley. So now I'm going to have to de crown the lower half of the cowl.

I think a lot of this has come about because of old repairs and over stretched metal. The other side seems relatively okay, but then I did replace half that cowl side (it was a bit mangled and over worked.)

 

I'm wondering if a shrinking disk would help take some of the bulge out of the cowl cheeks? Mine are pretty flat after replacing the bottom 8 inches or so.

 

Thanks Sam. I have full confidence in you ans am looking forward to seeing your solution.

 

As always nice work Tim! Think about it for awhile and then just get after it.

 

You offend a lot of people with that same cry about a traditional engine choice many choose for their builds! We all get that you don't like SBC for some reason and it doesn't make any threads better by you pointing that out over and over!

 

For people to get offended they have to care what I think. Why should they care that I think the sbc it over used in all genres of modified cars? They have their view. I have mine. They frequently express their view. I frequently express mine. I have no problem with their view. Why should they have problems with my view?