I think on the the FH Italmeccanica on a Ardun set-up to the bigger S.Co.T. If a 32 coupe in a early 50’s style LA street racer before NHRA. I might has a upgrade but its not cheap. Money is ’always’ a factor but say its not a case. In this case I’m going for the 59 AB block ( to me more hot rod than the 8BA ) and knifedge 4” Merc crank, 8BA rods, truck oil pan, Stelling oilpan breather, early Hemi valves, Clay Smith cam, Isky valvesprings, std Ardun lifters, std Ardun rockers, 8BA camcover, Scintilla magnet, dual ot tripple old Stromberg 97. The heads is the early ones with water inlet in front ( Allard logo, New York is gone, to bad ) -So what about the blower ? Pictures of set-up. Ideas ? Is it common, was it common, or ?
Yes I understand it was unusual but some might use it, but factor going to the bigger from the FH blower, is it ’to much’ or question is a overkill. I has a chance now, but for shore a big invest.
The bigger SCoT blower would be better on an Ardun - though originals are much harder to find than the smaller units that went on Flatheads. Also, they usually need some mods to make them a bit better (pinning the rotors, etc). Also, sometimes the gears are shot (not very high quality in originals). I'm not aware of a "kit" that SCoT or Italmecannica made for the Ardun, so what was sometimes done was that racers used a larger SCoT blower from kits that were for overhead Cadillac's, Olds, etc - and grafted them onto Arduns. The other way to go is with a GMC blower - which is what a lot of the racers did anyway (not that many guys ran blowers - until much later in the 50's/60's). Obviously, GMC blowers are plentiful, though you'll have to figure out what to do for a blower manifold. The manifolds that have been made recently for Arduns (which H&H has now) are designed for their repop bigger SCoT style blowers - which have a much smaller exit port than a GMC. If it was mine, I'd fabicate a custom blower manifold that is designed for a GMC blower and go that route. I'd probably use a 4-71 blower - and have it rebuilt with all the modern end-plates and stuff that make sense. Another issue is the drive system. If you're putting a flathead/Ardun in the stock location in a 32, you have NO ROOM for a gilmer belt (even a 2" one) and really just enough room to run 2 narrow V-Belts (with some mods to the front cross-member). If you want a much better drive system, then you'll have to decide to set the motor back a bit to give you room for more v-belts or better yet, a 2" gilmer belt in front or you can do front cross-member mods (like move it forward), etc.. It is kind of like putting 5 lbs in beans in a 1 lb bag! LOL
For what you're doing, you'd be far better off with a much stronger set of rods than 8BA stuff - modern H-beams, Carillo's, etc.. You lose a rod, you'll be very unhappy! Also, you'll need to think about lower-end main cap upgrades, potentially a girdle, etc.. I would be having a custom billet crank made if money is not an object - a LOT stronger than a cast Merc crank.
Thanks on many good inputs. The key here for me is the factor. One issue is that few use Ardun heads and so few had a blower and Very few had the bigger S.Co.T, but question is ; had anyone really one on the streets back in the days ? -If no, its a ’no factor’ here. That’s the brainer ( and thread. But ’if’, for me it add a cool thing to has a blower that are hard to find ( and expensive and rare ) In this car I’m not into any new made parts ( or rew or doing burnouts ) Chassie and transmission/rearend is a yoke. I will drive like a ’old guy’. I think a Ardun FH look nice with dual Strombergs and here some might hit the streets doing that back in the days. -Or I just build a car that ’could had been made’, but no one ever did. I found a Facebook group now on Arduns but its most salt racing and Hilborn or later on 50-60’s dragracing or modern build ups. Maybe it was no one had this on the streets in early 50’s I has the std intake and that can be made for a supercharger intake. On mechanical issues ( if ) I will not move engine and will go the 2 belt drive. Its complicated to get it to work with alternator etc. To use a billet crank, better rods, moder light valves and retainers, beamed springs etc its not the idea here. Shore to lose a rod is crazy just be stubborn use old ones as new H-beam is a very cheap insurance. ( But I know one used stock rods for many years and miles and he has the bigger blower on for streets but builded up from classic and personal ideas and not a early era idea.
I have a ton of old magazines, and I have never seen a street car featured in them with an Ardun and ScoT blower. I recommend you buy a collection of magazines from the era you are trying to emulate. Not many guys here who were really alive and hot rodding in 1950 left on the HAMB.
I shore would like dig into book and old magazines, but its a hobby and economy on its own today. I got this 2 books here. I guess if I go the big blower and Ardun its a car people back then on streets never even dreamed about. If so the ’factor’ is gone, as it means atleast to me a fake car. ( When say that its just me and its personal ideas.
I think one of the things you should consider is that there were very FEW street driven HotRods in the early 50's that would have had an Ardun in them. Ardun's were expensive to build and rare setups even back then - and only a few hundred sets of heads were even made (nobody knows for sure - but maybe 400 - 500 or somewhere around there). So, to find street Ardun's with blowers in the early 50's might be a bit of a 'HotRod Unicorn'. Another option might be to build a 4-carb "log style" manifold - these were fabricated setups that were made by folks who were racers and needed more carbs than 2 or 3. Example (these were from a racer back in the day):
I think Willie Glass ran that combination, the rods looked stock to me, he did reinforce the main webs (esp the center).
Any pictures of Willy Glass hot rod , but maybe you meant the intake and 4 carbs showed above ? I'll seen a intake on a Ardun that 10 minutes from me and intake is new made but look like that. I could go Ardun std intake ( dual Solex ) but don't like that look. The books I borrow said 250 Arduns was made but I guess it was x2 in the end. It's brutal go the bigger blower but I get sceptical of just to much and if no one ever used it on a streets, just racing and mid 50's and up.
Spot on, but I do understand @3w Hank's desire to have a car that 'was' as opposed to a car that hypothetically could have been. There's no shame in that!
roseville carl, I got the message but I cant really see the point of it here in this thread that I ask of advice how it was done. Yes it was a answer in a way, or you can end all topics with that sticker. That’s why I dont see the point.
I don't have a good photo of any of his engines, he is well known and you can find quite a bit about him, here's a photo of his roadster A blown flattie w/Ardun & blower (I'm not sure which blower, if it was S.Co.T or the Italimecanica, I would recognize it, I'm unsure of the actual brand), the above photo is from an earlier combination, a more
In my opinion a street driven hot rod in the early 1950's running Ardun heads and a big SCOT blower would have never existed. Even running Ardun heads with carburetion on a street driven hot rod in the early 1950's would be almost unheard of as well. Time frame wise, it would be just too early. Street driven Ardun motors really didn't become popular until the 1970's. Tom Senter with his "White Papers" writeup in Rod & Custom magazine about building a street driven Ardun motor made readers of the magazine aware of what could be done, and because of this very well written series of articles, this would have inspired others to build a street driven Ardun motor. After reading the "White Paper" articles almost everyone wanted an Ardun, it was that well written. Heck, I even wanted one. About this same time as well, Cotton Werksman from the Chicago area was building Ardun powered modified T buckets, and being one of the founding members of NSRA, his cars would appear at the Street Rod Nationals and would further advance the idea of street driven Ardun motors. This is now 2023 and with the parts availability and modern day knowledge an Ardun motor can be built up by modern day experts quite easily. All you need is a really thick wallet.
Great to hear inputs. I got some information that the bigger S.Co.T came out mid 50's and a more natural choice in early 50's would been the GMC series 71 ( if anyone made it as that sounds very rare ) If I got it correct that blower came out 1938 ( the V-type in 57 - what that mean I don't know ) As I'm new into this build up a hot rod that GMC feel to me 60's or 70's both racing and street, but I seen pictutures it was popular in all kind of racing in the end of 50's. The add on the Ardun above is cool to see, and that was 1950. My coupe will has the Ardun head, that is decided. What will be above it will be seen, and I has not been shore on use the FH size Italmeccanica blower or just carbs but then one told me the bigger was better in size on Ardun. -One thing came up. If now the series 71 blowers was out that early why was the Italmeccanica so ( or feel to me hot rod ) that popular ? Was they easy to get or why ? If I'm correct Navarro used the GMC late 40's but that was on salt ( not the streets in LA )
One of the things you learn with Ardun's is that there is a lot of incorrect information that was thrown around for years - especially from some of the early builds. Back in the day, they didn't have the parts availability, the internet for searches, etc.. - so guys usually found parts from other engines that they could use in an Ardun. Valves, valve springs, regular flathead cams, etc.. I used to speak with Doug King quite a bit - he was very well versed in a lot of "more modern" Ardun builds and had a wealth of knowledge. Obviously, Ronnie Roadster is a great resource (one of the few that actually knows what he is talking about). Building original Arduns is a lot more difficult than buying a complete "ready to almost go" kit from Don Ferguson - so the degree of difficulty and cost is very much related to what you're starting with ---> trying to rejuvenate an old set of original heads, versus buying a brand new (and upgraded) set from Don. The easiest approach (by far) is to buy a new set and start with a great set of rocker arms, better castings, improved designs, etc - so Don is your man for the parts and will sometimes build engines. 3W Hank mentions that he has an early set of Ardun heads - with the water outlets in the front. The rocker arm setups in most early versions don't have the outer shaft supports, but folks have made supports to improve these designs to mimic the later designs. With original (versus Ferguson's rockers) you have the bigger issue of coming up with a "drip oiling" system to lubricate the pushrod/rocker arm balls - as without lubrication, you'll have wear issues. All this has been done before and Ronnie is about the best resource for this stuff . . . he's dealt with all of it ---> original, original hacked up and worn out, new stuff from Ferguson, Bonneville, etc..
Where does a guy find valve covers for a Ardun? When I got mine, the guy kept the Hilborn injector, Mag, and valve covers. I bought off ebay years ago a set of cast unmachined covers, machined them to find out they are one size to small! Too thick and too small to go over the rockers. Wall hangers now. I have made a small rotor 6-71 set up for mine using a Austin intake. I was told Don Ferguson won't sell parts only a complete set up but have not contacted him. Any other sources?
Barney Navarro ran a 3-71 on a flathead in the late 40's. The 4-71 blower was available, so if you're wanting to do an early 50's build, then why not . . . though you might be the "only guy running a 4-71 on an Ardun" in an early 50's style build. You'll have to be running v-belts . . . as many as you can FIT in the front of the motor. I've never heard of or seen any pictures of anybody with ANY blown Ardun in the early 50's on the street (or even Bonneville for that matter). BUT - who cares - the parts were available and if guys back then had the idea/knowledge and had their hands on the parts (and had the money - always an issue), they would not have hesitated building/running a 4-71 blown Ardun. Given the various manufacturers of quality GMC blower parts - I would go this route in that you'll have a great combination that will put out a lot more air than any SCoT of any size and will be reliable and serviceable. Just make sure your budget is not an issue . . .
I'd just contact Don and find out. You'll probably not find an original/real set of valve covers outside of a complete engine package. Don's a great guy - it will just depend on whether or not he will sell parts. He doesn't do the Ardun stuff for a living - it is strictly something that helps pay a few racing bills and is very low volume.
Thanks, guess it can't hurt to give him a call. I think you are right about not finding original/real covers. I have been looking for almost 10 years and have not seen a loose set for sale.
In response the Hanks question about the '71' series blowers, they are designed for diesel engines, 1 revolution will feed 4 to 6 71cubic inch cylinders and were gear driven on a 1:1 ration. Those other superchargers were developed for gasoline engines and had been around for a good while.
Most of the "new" ones are copies off of an original set . . . and then due to "shrinkage" from the new mold, they end up smaller than the originals. One has to be very careful about buying a set of "copies" - as they usually will not fit. the only ones that I trust would be from Don . . . and his have a provision for a nice rubber "sealing ring" around the bottom.
Also, if you manage to get Don to sell you a set, also buy his much-improved spark plug tubes and associated nuts/hardware that go with them.
I read the 6/71 was used in WW2. To me even if they was theoretically out on the market ( but no one used them as way to early ) it would feel 80's muscle cars as that era I started read car magazines and went on cruzing locally etc. But if, it was shore a better blower than the Italmeccanica. I'll just shut from hip here, so it's just talk/specualation and learn history. Racing goes always step by step. I read in a book I got here out from Hot Rod magazine and the std valves was a weak part ( heawy and maybe even cast ? ) so they replaced them to the early Hemi valves and std the intake valve was to big so they made the Hemi valves lighter and get them to fit better on the seat. Next case was the valvesprings as they could not has a more lift on cam as std spring got coilbid, so a trick here was use a Lincolns springs and a Isky inner spring and they had 130 on seat. So for shore get this to work soon after the relise or at 1950 was very few people that could do this and then add a blower... The FH had many years of hot rodding even before the war so it was a more easy way ofcourse, then for racers the Olds came and then the Hemi and the Chevy SB and story was over. Its always easy etc 25 years after do speed tricks ( cheap and at home ) but the pioneers is few. So I get it, to use the Ardun heads and a blower is not era correct at all. In my case I should go FH and the Italmeccanica, as those was 'maybe' out on the streets. But theoretically the parts was out to be used ( Ardun & GMC blowers ) but time was not there, my guess before 20 years after my era ideas. -It will be a hybrid on ' what could been made'.
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