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Technical ***May 2023 May Showers Bring Bangers***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, May 1, 2023.

  1. Dan from Oakland
    Joined: Jan 16, 2009
    Posts: 248

    Dan from Oakland
    Member

    Old Dawg likes this.
  2. Kevin Pharis
    Joined: Aug 22, 2020
    Posts: 713

    Kevin Pharis
    Member
    from Califunny

    Why is it that throttle linkage always has to have some kind of monkey motion…?!;)

    953E1B15-79C3-4AC5-8E87-48B8D447E5C4.jpeg 8732AE9C-8512-4968-97BD-D4D62CEF3D9C.jpeg
     
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  3. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,392

    Outback
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NE Vic

    Just to keep you interested! Haha :D

    That's certainly a great looking setup!
     
  4. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,372

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I think Rube Goldberg worked as a Ford systems engineer.

    .
     
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  5. 62pan
    Joined: Jun 8, 2008
    Posts: 908

    62pan
    Member

    Why not just eliminate the top linkage and just use levers on the ****erfly's?
     
  6. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Throttle linkage does not necessarily need 4 rods, 9 arms, 9 joints and 4 shafts. While that one looks shiny and fancy with a lot going on, there are an awful lot of places for problems. Really cool **** on a show car, but for racing or touring, simpler is generally better.
    That same job could have been done with 2 rods and 4 joints.
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  7. Hard to argue with experience. I am getting ready to tackle a 4 carb set up, would be very interested in what you have built and how you tuned it. Thank you for sharing!

     
  8. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 778

    railcarmover

    You can cut 10/32 threads on ford spark and throttle rods and buy 10/32 Heim joints..make them any length you want 97919E28-C26B-464A-ABFD-A8932AF77D86.jpeg
     
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  9. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    I'm an old sprint car guy. We all used Hilborn injection on small block Chevy engines. At the time nobody had a camera on a phone in his pocket that took free pictures, haha. Consequently, I don't have a lot of pictures of what we were doing.
    Basically, what most of us were using was a single bellcrank with the shaft going through the firewall lengthwise to the car with an arm on each side of the firewall. In the ****pit one rod went from the pedal to the arm. On the engine side one rod went from the bellcrank arm to an arm on the throttle shaft at the back of the engine. Then the Hilborn set up had a rod from one shaft to the other and a rod to the metering block. Point is, it should be as simple and strong as you can make it and don't let it have any chance to go over center and lock open.
    With 4 carbs, depending on how they are laid out, you might get away with one common shaft on bearings that is parallel to the throttle shafts with an arm and rod on it for each carb and an arm and rod to whatever is on the firewall.
    For ideas you might go visit some of the light airplane shops in your area. Little planes are loaded with linkages that need to be light, strong and 100% reliable.
    I still have a buddy racing sprints, in the next day or two I'll swing by his place and see what they're running for throttle linkage now.
     
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  10. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    My working career was mostly repairing and modifying heavy equipment, mobile and stationary. Over 40 years or so I got a lot of experience with linkages. One thing to keep in mind is that any linkage arm should be as close as possible to 90 degrees from the rod it operates when the linkage is at the middle of it's stroke. That will keep the leverage the same throughout the travel and also probably prevent you from setting up an over center situation.
    20230508_104553 (Small).jpg
     
  11. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    This is off topic, so I won't be surprised if it gets removed. Actually, it started as a 1963 International Travel-all, so maybe it's not off topic, haha.
    Anyway, a couple months ago I switched to a different hydraulic valve on my old home grown loader/snowplow/forklift. At the same time I decided I needed to move the joystick control to a better location. These pictures were taken during construction and engineering phase, so the welds needed to be finished and the hitch pin clips were replaced with cotters, etc. before I called the job completed.
    The joystick pivot was a steering u-joint from an old Ford pickup. The linkage arms coming off it are welded to the u-joint quite a ways from the centerline of the pivot to avoid damaging the bearings. But the location of the rod end of the arm is on centerline of the u-joint cross. That way, swinging the lever fore and aft will not affect the linkage of the valve spool that operates when you swing the lever side to side.
    20230226_123030 (Small).jpg 20230226_123023 (Small).jpg 20230226_123059 (Small).jpg
     
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  12. Kevin Pharis
    Joined: Aug 22, 2020
    Posts: 713

    Kevin Pharis
    Member
    from Califunny

    I completely agree! But if I wanted simple, I would have put a Stromberg on it…:eek:

    The original plan was to use a straight link connecting the 2 carbs and a single link to the pedal. Simple, but not possible as many things on this car are already decided, and I am trying not to change too much. While this stuff was still on the bench I figured the Winfield bellcrank might solve the problem, so I made up a batch. Now I have em and like em, so might as well use em! I tried running a continuous bellcrank shaft thru the 2 carbs, but found that it would bind easily. So looked for a coupler that was simple and effective. The initial plan was to create a wavy coupling as found on dual SU carb setups… but after much effort was not happy with the fit, finish, and rigidity of the coupling I had created. The cross pin connection link was found on early SU setups too.

    The linkage is not as simple as I would like… but it doesn’t have any sketchy welds or funky Lokar **** on it, so I guess I did sumthin right;)
     
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  13. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    Kevin, I certainly wasn't trying to detract from your set-up, it looks really cool. I was just saying that simpler is generally more dependable and usually much easier. A lot of guys, maybe not on this thread, don't have a good understanding of the geometry involved in linkages and could easily build something undependable and possibly dangerous. That obviously doesn't apply to you.
     
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  14. You have earned a subscriber.
     
  15. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 778

    railcarmover

    C4C82F38-9C94-481E-8219-2293FADD97DE.jpeg
     
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  16. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 268

    4BangerDean
    Member

    So far this month I got my engine dismantled. The block has been repaired at some time in its life. My guess is that it froze at some point. The cylinder walls definitely have some wear. I don’t see a reason why it can’t be used. A few questions though.
    1. The oil pan rails on the block are not threaded on the water inlet side and some of the valve side, requiring a nut and bolt. Is this normal?
    2. The block is countersunk where the fuel pump bolts on. I ***ume it didn’t come this way.
    3. I need a cylinder bore gauge. Can you recommend one?
    4. Would you use this block?
    IMG_3074.jpeg IMG_3075.jpeg IMG_3077.jpeg IMG_3079.jpeg IMG_3082.jpeg
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  17. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,372

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    #1 No, they should be threaded. I would heli-coil or install thread inserts.
    #2 They did not come that way, It shouldn't be a problem unless there are no threads left.
    #3 This is like the one I use. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3338121592...%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675&epid=10024833983
    #4 I would have it pressure check it before doing ant thing to it.
     
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  18. Thank you Dan! I've located a pair of V-8 gears and will start playing with them pretty soon. I think what I'll do is machine a cam gear nut to accept the V8 cam gear nut similar to how Charlie Yapp does on his front cover.

    Your fronty impeller looks fantastic, I've yet to chuck it in a lathe but I sure am excited to get started!
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  19. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 778

    railcarmover

    As you know, that’s a diamond B, it appears it doesn’t have you usual cracks from 2&3 exhaust valve to cylinder. There are others on here with more knowledge than me (hell sometimes my dog does) but I would do hard seats and sleeves if it checks out pressure testing as mentioned above. Seats and sleeves ‘freeze’ any crack from causing an issue.. if you have the sheckels..then again, is your wallet is fat go Burtz, it has the lower end of your dreams..
     
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  20. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,392

    Outback
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NE Vic

    IMG_20230425_161918081_HDR.jpg IMG_20230425_161845355_HDR.jpg IMG_20230425_161906929_HDR.jpg This car belongs to a mate up the road, it's very neat with lots of cool details. He call's it a trunkster. The body b pillars back is fabricated from GM Bedford truck sheet metal (40's) he's 6'4" so needed to get creative

    The hood bows are re-purposed cart bows which he steam bent to get the radius's right for the application.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2023
  21. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 268

    4BangerDean
    Member

    Thanks for your response. I will have the block pressure tested and go from there. I’ll also purchase a cylinder bore gauge.
     
  22. Dan from Oakland
    Joined: Jan 16, 2009
    Posts: 248

    Dan from Oakland
    Member

    Also, magnaflux the deck and make sure there are no cracks around the valve seats.
     
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  23. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 268

    4BangerDean
    Member

    Funny, I think my dog had more sense than me most of the time. He’s not obsessed with 90 year old engines and vehicles.
    I get the Burtz idea but I’m hell bent on using Model B engines. After all my truck is a Model B. Hopefully another banger car finds its way to me in the somewhat near future. The truck is priority number one.
    My ultimate plan is to build a nice flathead and a nice OHV engine. Currently the engine in my truck has issues which I have a good running B to replace it with. I’ll tear it’s existing engine down and see what it’s insides look like. Fortunately I’ve got some engine options.
     
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  24. Fabber McGee
    Joined: Nov 22, 2013
    Posts: 1,452

    Fabber McGee
    Member

    [​IMG]

    You guys get pretty fancy trucks now days, haha. This is what they had me in during the second half of the 80's. The old International was a pretty good truck though. Don't remember ever having to work on it instead of the money makers.
    20230510_094730.jpg
     
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  25. ZerroHalfcup
    Joined: Dec 6, 2022
    Posts: 105

    ZerroHalfcup
    Member

    First time posting in here and still trying to learn what I can about these but thought I'd share my weekend. Me and some friends went to the Arkansas Mile that the ECTA puts on and had the opportunity to make a p*** in mine.

    20230506_121304.jpg


    It went faster in the half mile than any of us expected but was an absolute blast in a bone stock banger.


    Polish_20230510_165931122.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  26. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 3,343

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

  27. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 2,722

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    Probably just about to seize up.

    (I turned 52 in a quarter in 1959 with a stock full-bodied pickup.)
     
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  28. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 778

    railcarmover

    I worked a few dirt spreads back in the day too, nights and saturdays doing edges.. no wonder I’m stove up.. that pretty truck was my last one, ****, I ran a bunch of different colored trucks, mainly cause I couldn’t keep my mouth shut, if I woulda just fixed the tractor I woulda been fine ..old fords is all I’m good for anymore, chasing big iron is for the kids to do.
     
  29. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 778

    railcarmover

    You ain’t alone brother, Got a couple of diamond B’s one was crack repaired and rebabitted by the cat who owned it, a master machinist at Aerojet..still can’t identify the babbit compound he used, it’s coal black C109F81C-82FD-4506-98CB-A56581DB1480.jpeg
     
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  30. Stovebolt
    Joined: May 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,661

    Stovebolt
    Member

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    A friend of mine sent me these pictures of this 34 5 window, mechanical brakes and all.

    wish I knew more about it.
     
    metalhead140, mvee33, Nobey and 10 others like this.

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