Hey all... I'll keep the intro short and sweet... one of my customers invited me to check out some cars left behind by her husband, Harold Pace. Harold was a prolific journalist, builder and driver and I believe he was on the HAMB now and then. His wife would like to figure out what is there, if they are in working order, and eventually try to rehome them. She mentioned a 27 Model T on Model A rails, a Devin SS and a Morgan and my curiosity was piqued by the T in particular. Upon arriving I quickly understood that Harold was a man I would have liked to know. The T and the Devin are sensational cars... I believe the T has been discussed here before. We are looking at a '27 T on A rails, track nose, powered by a GMC 302 with 5 Stromberg 97s and a McCulloch supercharger. Power is fed through what looks like a T5 transmission to a Frankland QC, with stopping provided by Buick finned brake drums. The car is downright awesome. Here are some pictures. This car ran at Bonneville in 2014(?) shortly before Harold's passing and has the salt rust to prove it. We would like to see if we can get the car running, but I would like to be very careful with it and I don't know anything about the engine and especially the supercharger. The brakes do not work so that is something that I will need to address before the car comes off the jack stands. But we would all really like to hear this thing sing. The car has been sitting in this shop for 9 years basically untouched. Is there anything special about the 302 or the especially McCulloch that I need to know or can I expect it to be OK with just the usual old car resurrection stuff?
The T shares its stable with this Devin - one of thirty late '50s fiberglass sports cars of Irish origin. Shelley mentioned that Harold took this car racing & it is definitely not a grocery getter. We haven't looked at it much, but I think it's a Chevy 283 with Jag IRS. We know we'll need to remove the rear wheel to get at the battery, but I've never messed with knock-offs before.
Neat roadster. When you start working on the brakes, check the line over the rear axle. Seems to have about a half inch of clearance before the wheelwell slices into it.
Are you looking for a what’s it worth, or? What I’m saying is you could spend a good portion of your time to make the road worthy, or have the lady sell them as-is.
The knock offs on the Devin may be left hand thread, on the right side if my memory is correct. That is the reverse of what you usually find with lug nuts, and the knock offs themselves may be marked.
I'm looking for any esoteric wisdom about the engine/supercharger in the roadster before we attempt to start it up - do I need to pre-lube the turboencabulator, crank the flux capacitor 38 times, etc.. I have done my fair share of "barn find" startups so am no stranger to the basic steps but I have no exposure to vintage superchargers and have never been around this family of engine. I know 302s are tough as nails... but that's about it. I also don't know anything I might need to know about the QC, or the Devin's wheels, etc... Does the McCulloch raise compression enough that we need race gas or what? I really have no idea. I don't really do the "what's it worth" threads - this is about documenting the cars and getting them running for her, and I thought someone might like to see them - but if anyone is interested in purchasing either car Shelley would like me to put them in contact with her. I am not being paid for this, I'm just excited to get to touch and feel some really cool stuff.
Everybody would be interested in buying them. It`s at what price she would be willing to sell them for. And how to know what price is the correct price. There are way too many flippers out there. And knowing who the next caretaker that also would be a good fit for the cars. That`s what the owner/builder would want.
Absolutely... she does not want them to end up with a flipper, they need to go direct to someone who will enjoy & drive them. I'm hoping that someone is here on the HAMB and will be properly listing both cars here for her eventually. First we'll be figuring out what she actually has as both cars have sat for nine years and were put away wet.
If you are the least bit scared of the supercharger, simply remove the belt and the air box on top of the carbs and get it running without....
That occurred to me, the airbox etc needs to come off before we start it anyway to make sure there are no critter nests in it (there is one in the exhaust). But if I don't need to worry about hurting the blower we might as well go in with it. I'm just excited to get to wake it up, and honored that it's being shared with me.
That thing is kooool... most of these cars seem to be wildly different in terms of chassis. I read that only 30 Devins were built but I'm not sure if that's bodies or if more bodies were built but only 30 sold as complete cars with a Devin-designed chassis. There is what looks like another Devin hood behind the shop with some serious damage to the driver side. I'll dig it out and take some pictures when I get back over there.
Man what a score!!!! I’d need a lobster bib on just to sit in them and imagine how good it would be to drive them
Very cool! those blowers make maybe 7 pounds of boost just put corn free premium in it and see what you’ve got. The front pulley -stock- is a variable diameter and as the motor gains revs it increases boost. Pretty neat stuff. The carbs will be boost referenced as well. Might be as simple as a hardline from the mech fuel pump to the charge pipe. it’s all pretty simple and there are tons of threads about them. That car is cool as hell, thanks for sharing edit: poor signal today the photos finaly Finished loading. That looks like the pulley has been replaced with a plain pulley and the pulley Clutch assembly removed. So it’s just like getting boost from any other super charger. cars like that probably have a binder around with info or a notebook. Find his user name and we can start the treasure hunt for info
Thanks Tim!! The fuel question was a big one, and dropping keywords like "boost referencing" for me to look up puts me on the right track for research... Harold was an extremely organized fella and I know both cars must be heavily documented somewhere, we just haven't found where yet. I'm sure he's written an article somewhere on the T as well. His username here was Pacecar as another user mentioned but he was not as active here as I thought he would've been.
I typed in a search for Harold Pace Bonneville and came up with a site called Rare Car Network. There is an article by Harold Pace called "Breaking Records at Bonneville on a Budget" dated July 27, 2016. Very interesting read with the text and lots of pictures by Mr. Pace. There is a picture of the '27 that you have your hands on in the article as well. Evidently, I'm not smart enough to copy and paste the article but look it up. Lots of information there.
https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/salt-shakers Thanks!! Great find. The car looks pretty much exactly like it did in these photos, down to even the same pool noodle on the rollbar. It is still sitting on those tires. I do notice that the blower isn't hooked up in the photos from the salt - those carb helmets are sitting on the workbench beside the car. I couldn't shake the feeling I had seen this car before and now I know I have - one of the other cars he photographed at this event fascinated me for a while and I had seen the T in context with it... this is that car. Now I know I have seen the T running in a video too but I can't find that video... I also found articles he wrote on MotorTrend concerning the Devin and some in-progress photos of it... https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/0601kc-1959-devin-ss-roll-bar-installation
Very cool. How did you find the rcn thread? Harold must have been one heck of an interesting guy? Surely there's someone on here who was familiar with him?
He was an interesting guy... He wrote a book which I'm sure resides on at least some HAMBer's shelves. https://www.amazon.com/Vintage-American-Road-Racing-1950-1970/dp/0760317836 He was very knowledgeable and from what others have said, very kind and eager to help. I've found dozens of articles that he's written on various subjects but he very rarely called attention to himself or his own projects... His research library is enormous & remains exactly as he left it. Well, I borrowed a few books...
When you get to it, here’s a link to the old VS 57 site. Might find something helpful, depends what you run into on the blower. My experience is if they turn over by hand and feel smooth you can run them. They’re pretty quiet at idle and make a bit of whine above 2-3000 rpm crank speed depending on the pulley ratio. When they start to seize the make a hell of a noise. http://vs57.y-block.info/ You’ll find info on fuel pressure referencing on either the Studebaker sites (try https://www.myersstudebakerparts.com/) or the F code Ford sites. When you get into the engine, you might want to track down jimmy six on here. He’s got a long racing history on those. I’d be surprise if he didn’t know the car from Bonneville. Really cool cars, what a find.
Good info in post#24. Jon & Mike(son) Meyer are good folks, knowledgeable w/paxton blown engines. Can correctly rebuild the paxton if needed. *Won't* steer you wrong or lie to you. Or rip you off. If you need contact info, PM me. Known these guys for years. Just talked to them Fri & Sat at the South Bend Studie meet. I would, & do, trust what they say. . Oh, & btw;, the boost from the McCullough is dependent on it's condition, maybe if modified(?), engine size, rpm, headport flow, etc. On a 289 size mill, usually see ~ 3psi(+/-) inside the manifold under carb(s), 5-7 at the blower outlet. Still results in impressive results. Marcus...
The knock offs on a Jag have arrows marked "Do" and "Undo", so that will not be an issue. I'd love to see either or both cars on the track at one of the vintage sports car races!
I remember the T from the photos of it on the salt but that's all I remember about it. It's one of those cool cars that you never forget. The Devin bodies were about as bare bones of a body shell as you could find.when they were new. I had one and it was still in the raw chopper gun fiberglass and had been bought and passed around a bit and now a friend's son has it sitting on a mini truck chassis that his dad put it on when he bought it from me. Think the cheapest plain jane fiberglass T bucket shell you ever saw and that is how a Devin body came. Many ended up replacing the severly damaged racecar bodies on very interesting chassis.
Always loved the style of the Devin cars/bodies. I remember as a kid reading about Ak Miller's Devin bodied Pikes Peak car and Dean Moon's Moonbeam Devin drag car. They are way above my pay grade. Oh well, I can always dream...
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