I see the car hobby itself as sort of an investment. Most people have hobbies, right ? I have friends who are into model trains, or fishing, or traveling to watch football games, or going on cruises, or skiing, or collecting salt & pepper shakers, or whatever. When they spend money,... it's gone! We are into old cars. Speaking purely for myself (but I'm sure I'm not alone) since I was 16, I have always been trying to get the next car, or the next part, or the next project, and it has forced me to save up and sell other stuff, and scheme, and work, to accomplish that goal. I NEVER would have saved that money otherwise, but I had a mission, and a p***ion for what I was after. I have done this hundreds of times ! There is always something else we need, right? Well, through doing that and having a hobby that actually holds a bit of value, we really are investing that money. Most of us have multiple cool old cars and a parts stash and tool hoard that has significant value. It might not be as good of a return as intelligently investing in stocks or bonds, or real estate, but we actually MADE the investment in our cars/parts/tools because we cared about it enough to actually do it, and enjoyed the experience as a pastime. We are truly blessed to have a hobby that retains value in a lot of cases.
At the last hot rod/muscle car show I went to one of my buddies said "the one thing all these cars here have in common is that they all have a driver with grey hair". Anybody with a pulse knows they have appreciated to a crazy level over the past few decades yet I also see a lot of big money guys cashing out entire collections at the big auctions. Maybe they're seeing something we ain't. I truly believe in 10 years some of the prices these cars are trading hands for now will be nothing but a distant memory as many of the kids coming up just don't care about them. Simple solution, build/buy/drive what you love and leave the speculation to the next guy.
I have a real issue with vehicles being seen as 'investments' They are appliances, whether you use them for simple transport or for enjoyment, they are for using!!
I don't think a long-term investment in an automobile is it good idea there's too many variables, especially now that the writing is on the wall for the internal combustion engine (I noticed nobody makes comments about politics on this site so I'm not going to say anything political and I'm just going to leave it at that) For example using historical examples, 15 years ago who would have thought a 1990s Toyota Supra would be $100,000+ car but yet a Nissan 300ZX of the same era Is barely worth 30 grand, both cars were in the same market segment when new both sold relatively well for what they were but yet one is worth three times more And I won't be surprised if in the next few years it's the next "hemi 'cuda" so to speak pulling seven digit auction prices. Why is it worth so much money when a few generation older Supra 15 years ago essentially was a worthless car. Nobody could have predicted it or how about the Jeep wagoneer from the 1960s through '80s some of those trucks are getting close to that $100,000 range for bone stock wood panel Chrysler era examples just insane for a Wyoming soccer mom's winter car. As short-term investments I have probably owned and flipped at least 200 cars in my 30ish years as an adult usually I do pretty well but it's a pretty big job and it takes lots of research and looking at cl***ified ads day in and day out. It has funded my car hobby and at times even helped pay the bills. Sometimes (rarely) I get real lucky and I hit a home run I make a 1000%+ profit But that is very rare, More realistically when buying a car and flipping it for a profit your goal is to triple your investment but settle for double. Also normally it's not cut and dry where you just buy the car and repost it for sale It never works that way. Usually you buy a car that is dead but you can see through the filth and see the potential in a car that would not take a lot of money or time to get back on the road and you invest some pretty serious labor into making that car presentable plus you get it registered and basically make it a turn key car for the next guy. The reality is it's more of a job than an investment because you're putting in sweat equity and a lot of it, no different than you would say flipping a house. I did however a couple of years ago get real lucky and I bought three Range Rover "cl***ics" (1987 to 1995 body style US market trucks) for a few hundred dollars each as I saw the market climbing up real fast All I did was sit on them for a few months and then I posted them back up for sale (fully detailed so they looked nice) Then I wrote really good descriptive ads with lots of photos and posted them where used cars used to get sold (craigslist before they messed it up). Those trucks I did really well on The problem is it was a fluke. I have no idea what the next collectible car will be I'm still pretty blown away that square bodies (Chevrolet pickups from the '70s and '80s) are pulling the money they are considering they made the same truck for 20ish years and made what 500,000+ a year not to mention all of them had fit and finish issues along with anemic smog era engines, The only way I can understand them being cool is heavily modified. I don't understand why they are worth money now but yet a 1980s Ford is still pretty reasonably priced Even the one with the legendary 6.9 IDI diesel that started the diesel pick up truck wars that we are still in today. The cl***ic car market baffles me, I could go on and on using tons of examples with very few of them really understanding why the market went up. The hemi cuda was self-explanatory as was GT500 mustang but why did the VW bus become worth a fortune but yet the corvair bus is still pretty cheap and I'm not really a van guy but the corvair van is great looking. I have also lost money more than once in my life messing around with old cars usually it was when I was younger because I didn't have the experience yet to understand what stuff actually cost and how much work it to do something when I was young I was more ambitious I would see a car needing major work like a paint job with serious body work and I would think to myself "oh I could do that That's easy" Not realizing it would take me 150+ man hours to get the car straightened out on a car That didn't really have a lot of value to begin with (I'm talking about vehicles like four-door Ramblers, or first generation Plymouth Valiants I may love them and think they're an excellent driving cars but the reality is to this day they don't have a ton of value and dumping 150 hours worth of labor into something to maybe triple your money just isn't worth the investment.
I drive all my cars best maintenance you can do a true car guy would never squirrel away a car in the hope of future investment value. and they are truly missing the real value of the car
Land would be a better investment, they’re not making any more of it! Precious minerals would also be a better investment, they could be used as currency if the current system were to fail. I’ve got one old car, it’s an investment in fun and entertainment. I’ve got a little bit of land. No precious metals though.
Yeah, face it guys, most of us are at that point in life when we're cashing in our "investments". It's too late for us to be thinking about what we should have invested in, that ship has sailed.
I have made some money on cars as long as I don't count my time worth anything. But, I have never seen this deal as opportunity for investment other than maybe little savings accounts that can be cashed in if needed when times get hard. Anyway, I can't imagine the thought of owning a car that I couldn't drive just so it could possibly be worth a lot someday. If I can't drive a car (at least one that is in driveable condition ), it really isn't worth much to me. The investment for me is in fun and relationships that this hobby has given me.
About the only thing I could think about that was affordable back then, and is valuable and collectible now, is comic books. You could probably blame it on mom throwing them away.
Investment cars are a tangible liquid ***et. They trade hands a****st investors on both sides of the ocean dependant upon the stock market. A 71 Hemi Cuda Convertible, a Boat tail Auburn, a fuelie Vette, Have ceased to be cars, and are now ***ets in a portfolio. Once you drive it, it's a toy . Enjoy for what it is, and if you can make buck or three, so be it .As for predicting the future value, good luck.vwinners are losers, and losers are the winners. There is a glut of brand new 87 GNX , Buicks, but they don't pull much compared to their younger brethren.
I have also made money on most of my cars. But as my wife says, it doesn't matter much if you just pour it into the next car. I told her when I die she's golden. I probably have nearly a hundred grand in junk between cars, boats, snowmobiles, guitars and other instruments, my pole barn, so on and so forth....
Tulip bulbs. Silver Anniversary Corvettes. Beanie Babies. NFTs. All were highly prized "collectibles" that aren't worth a darn. There is no proven formula for picking what will appeal to the fickle m***es in the future, but anything deemed "collectible" at its outset is doomed.
As a general rule, I think cars are poor investments. Let's start with a basic definition of liabilities and ***ets. Robert Kiyosaki defined these in their most basic terms, "***ets put money into your pocket, liabilities take money out of your pocket." And that makes a lot of sense when put that way. For example, we often refer to our homes as ***ets. They're not. They're liabilities, because they cost us money to keep and maintain. It may be a necessary liability, in that it also provides housing, but it is a liability nonetheless. Now, if we hold onto something long enough, there may be a natural appreciation. Several factors are at work here, and them are inflation, and supply and demand. For the most part, most HAMB-relevant cars are not investment cl*** vehicles. There either is enough of a supply to meet the demand, or there just isn't that much of a market for them in the first place. This is especially the case for customized vehicles, which are built to the taste of one but not necessarily for another. That's fine, but that's the price of bespoke. For people who do see appreciation, chance are they've owned their cars long enough that perhaps the supply has dwindled, or the demand has increased for one reason or another, or the rising tide of inflation has risen all ships. In that sense, there really isn't appreciation, since the value has remained the same relative to everything else. Of course there are exceptions. Low production cars for which there is a strong market. Corvettes, 57 Chevs, 32 Fords, 59 Cadillacs. These are iconic cars that transcend generations. If you want to be technical about it, sure they meet the definition of an investment. But (without considering more traditional investment cl***es) what other stuff could you have bought besides cars that would have out-performed it? Go back to 1990 and buy a fully restored 59 Eldorado and a 1959 Les Paul standard, and tell me in 2023 which is worth more. And though partially joking, @guthriesmith makes an important point, even for those of us who do "make money" on cars bought and sold, that's ***igning no dollar value for our time spent, which from a financial perspective is dumb. Even if we're enjoying ourselves because it's a hobby or p***ion, time is valuable and could at minimum be exchanged on the market for some nominal labor rate. Regardless of whether the car appreciates or actually is a solid investment, the reality is that there is no gain realized until the car is sold. At which point if you actually like the car, you're out. You've liquified the item. Now what? These cars we discuss on here are labors of love, and largely not investments. These cars are many things; they're a hobby, a p***ion, a means to meeting great people and friends, ties that bind you to other like-minded individuals, entertainment, etc. They have a utility in that regard too. But I'm also of the mindset that because these are frivolous expenses, they're also subject to depreciation in times of recession, when non-essential spending has to be cut for people who are tighter financially. It's a balance to find funds for this fun stuff, but also to take care of the real finances and investments.
I wish I invested in a truck load of dish washers that actually clean the dishes about three years ago
Ive always say these old cars are an "Investment in good times" ! Buy Gold if long term profit is your goal..
Jim, you got that right! At this stage of life I am enjoying spending my kids inheritance, if there is anything left when I check out I mis-figured! HRP
I'm 42 and I've been getting promised that old cars are going to be dirt cheap just around the corner in a couple years, for 20 years. Never happens. And this weekend I helped some high school aged kids lift the box back onto the square body Chevy truck they're welding back together. I'm sure those guys would happily take on a nice 50s or 60's era truck if the price suddenly dropped to the point a 15 year old could pull it off. "Everyone here has grey hair" says more about the event you were at than it does about the hobby.
I don't know about this "investing" shtick. I just wish I could have hung on to one or two of the cars I can recall owning back in the '60s......... Not for any appreciation in value, but for me still being able to "appreciate" driving them today myself.
I was pulling into a show a couple weeks ago and there was a nice lowered square body Chevy in front of me. I looked over at my wife and told her 15 years ago we'd buy that truck for $500 and fill it with gravel.
True, they were everywhere and dirt cheap when I was in high school in the late 90's. But I got my first car, a '53 Ford, when I was 11 years old in 1992, and it was an absolute dinosaur relic of times past. It was newer then than most of the square bodies are today. It'd be the equivalent in age to a mid 80's car today.
If you took your $43,000 and just invested it at a paltry 6% for 58 years with no further deposits, you'd have nearly that much with a lot less work. If you started with $4300 and invested that annually for 58 years @ 6% you'd have a lot more. If you got lucky and managed a bit over 7% you have over $3M..... No, cars are lousy investments, generally.
If you'd put a normal person's perpetual car payment into stock mutual funds for the past 40 years, you'd definitely be a millionaire by now. At least that's how we did it.
^^^^this. if you have saved and lived below your means you should have done well but then you retire but have the same mindset so the $$ just sit there for what? Hard to change at***udes. As for cars etc as investments, we have done pretty well if you don't count your labor. Oh well, it's a hobby. Obviously there are other items/etc that do much better-gold, market funds, Old Colt and Winchesters etc BUT you have to sell them! Hard to let go.
An all steel 2 door 34 sedan, running/driving, typical 350/350 just auctioned locally. Mid 90s build. Full fendered. Brought mid 20s.
yeah, big problem. But I'm getting over it, I just blew big bucks buying an old corvette, and the concrete guys are out there working on a new driveway. It sure is hard to spend money...it takes willpower....
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