Technical At my wits end with 8ba flathead

It's been my experience that when you have an absolutely whooped engine, really good fuel delivery and ignition is of the utmost importance.

Here, the most concerning thing I'm seeing is that the engine has no oil pressure. Because this could be the best running flathead on the earth but if it has no oil pressure, it's not going to run for long and all of the effort is for nothing. How has that been verified? I would want to see at least 2 different, newer, mechanical gauges both reading the same thing to verify that this is the case. If that is the situation, then I'd stop all work on the car. The engine needs to come out at that point. Then you have a cost/benefit analysis that you need to do. Good luck.

 

The poor old flat head is wore out. You are applying 2020 rules to a 1950 motor In the early 50s if a engine made a 100,000 miles it was bragged about..

 

You may have skills to trade work for work. Years back when times were tough $$ wise for me, one of my daughters still wanted to continue with English riding lessons. Wasn’t in my lack of budget.
She worked a deal on weekends with the place to feed, clean stalls, clean tack, etc for riding lessons.
I’d rather spend a day working on your engine than doing the yard, driveway, etc. sometimes the only skill you need to trade labor is a willingness to get dirty.

 

Old cars , trucks and machinery will teach You a life time of lessons . I hope that You are able to find some mentors to guide You . I was blest with several old neighbors who were gearheads . Plus my Dad who guided me also

 

I think you should create a new post looking for some Flathead help in Pittsburgh. Also, go over to Ford Barn and post there. There's probably guys in your area that may have passed up your thread, but would offer help if they knew you were needing FH help in PA.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4

 

Last weekend we gave the car a long overdue oil change. So much sludge came out of the oil pan that it was ridiculous. The oil filter was full of crap also. The oil came out with way more force than I anticipated and overshot the oil catch basin. Some of it got on the ground so we had to sop all it up with some towels. Now that the new filter and the new oil are in there the oil pressure problem seemed to resolve itself (for now anyway). When I was under the car I also saw all the repaired sections of the frame, which was just about half the frame, way more than I was told was replaced. (the frame was rotted away so the previous owner had sections professionally replaced). At least the tires don't have any flat spots from sitting so long. There is a small oil leak from a gasket but I knew that already and it's a marginal amount that it's not exactly a high priority at the moment.

Dad had to double-check that he wasn't unscrewing the transmission fluid drain, even though I knew we were doing it right. He insists on that because when he was a teenager his friend drained the transmission fluid on his car by accident and then poured the fresh oil in on top of the old oil, the car was pretty much shot after that.

My dad finally found the missing piece to the Pertronix Flame Thrower ignition kit (not the distributor, it just replaces the coil and the points). I really don't want to put it in (I would like to keep it as period as possible) but at this point, I'll do anything. we're going to install that soon (next weekend possibly). If it doesn't work we can always put it back, I guess.

Will post updates later

 

Sounds like you are making progress. Keep it up!

 

My buddy called me years ago. He was giving an OT car to his nephew who flew in from AZ. He thought it was a good idea to change the oil.
When he called he said “the “XX” won’t move after an oil change.

I asked him to check the dipstick, sure enough way way over the line.
Yes, he drained the transmission, guess he don’t notice the difference in the color of the fluid.

 

The carb fuel leak persists. No idea what it can be at this point. New gasket, tightened properly, even put gasket sealant on there and it still leaks. It always has but i don't know what else it could be.

Pictures make it look drier than it is. No dripping of any kind, the base of the carb always just leeches fuel out like that.

Didn't run today so I'll try on Saturday. It usually takes about a day to "reset" from when you try to start it. I'm sure it's just weak spark at this point, because it tries to start and it'll occasionally hit

 

The pictures below suggest otherwise.
Is the power valve okay, as in did you test that it’s not leaking, or float setting too high, ? Both will cause the leaking as showing in the photos below.

All mating surfaces flat ?
I have never use a sealant or gasket out of a tube for a carb, as there shouldn’t be a need to.

 

The power valve looks fine to me but I don't know how to test it. Yes they're all flat. I only used the sealant because I thought it would take care of the problem. It helped a little bit but evidently it didn't fix it

 

Bad Needle and seat, or float level too high.

 

With power valve in place, and bottom third (throttle plate portion/assembly), of carb removed, fill fuel bowl and leave overnight - any change to fuel level (other than evaporation), or moisture around bottom of Power Valve (economizer valve) will indicate leaking

 

Could the carb possibly be leaking around the throttle shaft?
I don't know much about these carbs, but the Rochester carb on my 235 has this problem.

 

I can't take it apart right now, because the gasket sealant will rip the gasket apart if I do, and I don't have a spare. I will do this though, eventually.

 

In the future, don’t use any sealant on carburetor gaskets. It is not necessary, and will generally cause more problems than it solves. I went through the same learning curve many years ago.

 

Okay.
Handy tip 1 - carry a fire extinguisher.
Handy tip 2 - if you don’t use the sealant, you can reuse your gaskets if careful and don’t over tighten the screws.
Handy tip 3 - gasket paper is cheap, - if you have more time than $ you can make your own gaskets.
(I still have some fuel and oil gasket paper that I bought 30 years ago and used some just last week, although not on a carb).

 

I have a fire extinguisher under the front seat.

Funny story about gasket paper, when I worked at a motorcycle shop the boss had me make gaskets for when he was putting a Jaguar carb on a motorcycle (he was an eccentric guy), so he gave me a carb spacer to trace. So I took the paper, traced it, and cut it out like he told me to. I gave him the gasket and then he came back a couple minutes later saying I did it wrong and it wouldn't fit. So I did it again, and still, it wouldn't fit. So when it didn't fit the third time, I got annoyed so I took the carb spacer and put it up to the carburetor, and sure enough the carb spacer wasn't the right size.

 

Alright well I have to wait until this weekend to put the ignition kit in because he's busy.

Anyway, I managed to get it to start up for the first time since the oil change, and man it didn't sound good at all. It was uneven and the engine was shaking so much (more than usual) that I thought it was about to roll over. It seemed like only one side of the motor was firing. But its probably just because it was sitting for a while, it'll smooth out when I get it running more regularly, as it usually does.

I watched the carb leak more closely this time, I noticed when I spray starting fluid in there it immediately begins to seep out. I hadn't realized it leaked that quickly, it explains why the 5 gallons that were in it disappeared so fast after only running twice

 

Most8BA distributors don't advance and retard corectly, install a modified Chevy dist. and it will probably solve the peoblem. There's a guy on the HAMB that changes Chevy dists to fit an 8BA.

 

You need to bite the bullet and stop chasing your tail. One or more parts are defective and untill you can confidently eliminate them each by focussing on one item at a time you wont find the cause of the problem.

Its no good geting the engine to run if the oil pressure is non existent .

First think to do is save the good oil you put in there and drop the sump. there will almost definitely be a ton of sludge in the bottom with the likely hood that the gause on the oil pipe is restricted with some of that same sludge . restricting the performance of the pump.

clean the sludge from the sump and clean the gauze on the oil pickup .. If your on a budget make your own sump gasket from some good quality card and a smear of sealer .. filter the fresh oil you recently put in ( or if you can afford it buy fresh, but dont waste your cash as you have a way to go yet )

With the sump and pick up cleaned and the oil replenished you need to get brave with the next steps

First find when number one cylinder is at top dead centre .. ( you need to start from scratch to eliminate any possible issue )

Flatheds are a pain to find TDC but if you remove number 1 plug ( left bank front cylinder looking from the front of the car )

Next step . Take a long , medium sized zip tie keep a firm hold on the pointed end and insert the head of the zip tie into thee plug hole . You will feel the zip tie disapear as it enters the cylinder , No turn the engine in its normal direction of rotation until you feel the head of the zip tie being caught by the piston against the head . Them turn the engine the other way one full revolutionuntill the head of the zip tie is caught again..

This should be the engine on TDC firing on number 1 , chech this by seeing where the timing pointed is sitting most 8bas have one .. if its way way off turn the engine back in the other direction and check again.. ( tdc will either be compression or exhaust and since you dont know where the valves are sitting you need a little trail and error )

OK with number 1 cylinder at TDC and the timing marks on the cranl pulley showing as near as close to TDC , remove the cap and check where the rotor arm in pointing .. It should be lined up with the terminal and lead , leading to cylinder number 1 ..

If not you have 2 options the correct optiin to remove and rotated the dixy so its orientated properly OR move the leads in the cap so they conform to the proper firing order .. ..

With that checked and confirmed set the points again on the peak of the distributer cam dont be to fussy as long as there is a gap it will fire and run and at this stage all you are doing is setting the motor up and eliminating possible issues ..

Now before you go any further get in crank it over and see if it fires .. if it runs but still runs crap then you have t least eliminated the timing .. while its running check the oil pressure to see if its improved .

OK so its still running like crap that carb is the next suspect and it definately looks like its flooding .

dont wast to much time on it unless you are replacing the parts inside such as the power valve jets, gaslets .. try and get you hands on a known good carb , the emphasis is on it being a carb off a known runner , not one somebody tells you was good but one you saw on a running car .. Dont be to fussy if it not a 94 with the vacuum for the dizzy, all your trying to do is find the cause of the problem , so If your offered a 97 , fit it and see how it goes .. If the carb makes a difference, then you know you need to find a replacement carb or fully rebuild the one you took off .

Before you get to this stage though a compression test would be a good idea , dont be to worried if the compression is down on a couple of cylinders as long as they read something it will run .

If you still can get it run then you have eliminated another thing , and the next checkes are more involved .. Has it stripped the cam drive ? does it have compression is there a rodent nest in the exhaust,,

Let us know how you get on..

 

Just wanted to say this is great advice.

 

thanks for the advice. the oil pressure situation resolved itself after I changed the oil. it did used to run fairly well but since the oil change I haven't been able to get it to run properly. There is nothing in the exhaust, I shone a flashlight in there and stuck this drain grabber wire thing in there but it's all clear (to the muffler anyway). I haven't ever checked the timing but I did replace the points and adjusted them. I did "adjust" the distributor while it was running like someone told me to do and listened to it by ear. I think it has pretty weak spark also, but hopefully the electronic ignition will help fix that. I will make sure to do what you told me to, thanks a lot

 

Rex, take your issue to The Ford Barn too, all flathead guys there. DO NOT run that engine with the carb flodding like it is and contaminate the new oil. You need to CLEAN & rebuild the carb with a kit from VanPelt Sales so you get the correct power valve. Check that compression like others have said. Proper points & condencer in that dizzy will be better than electronic. That dizzy works GR8 with the stock carb. Don't get ahead of yourself like others have said. Tubman, Ole Ron Kube and others on the Barn have been at the flathead game a long time & have experience with them. Also, you will need to keep fuel pressure to the carb regulated to aprox 2lb; will help with flooding. Hang in there, don't give up, you'll git er done. Flatheads sometimes from sticking valves which could cause your rough running Marvel Mystery oil helps with this...agaiin compression test.....

 

Yeah right, Rex. If you can’t fix it like you should, do you really think adding another variable (electronic ignition) will help you? Don’t add more problems.

 

A hope, wish or prayer. Doesn't properly fix a pre-existing issue. I've made mistakes in thinking something and replacing, without diagnosing an issue. Like previously stated, take time and correct or test for what you have going on now. No need to add additional problems. Thinking and knowing are different things.

 

Update:

Me and dad installed the new hot coil and the electronic ignition today. (It was never never my idea, but he talked me into it. I wanted to keep the points.) Although I gotta say, man the car runs 1000x better. Starts up immediately and it idles and accelerates real smooth, more power than before. I drove it for the first time today.

Of course, that doesn't fix all the other issues with it, there's still a lot more than needs to be done, but at least it can actually move now. I will update later.

 

Well that's good to hear!

 

Every won battle gets closer to winning the war!

 

I would agree with you 100% except for the crap replacement parts we get today.
I bought 3 condensers in a row from NAPA for a 1967 International truck .... all bad out of the box.
I ended up going to a old engine been sitting in a shed for 30 years to get a condenser that would work to get it running.

Now my current Dodge flathead runs fine with the old points condenser in them, I have bought replacement parts for them. I need to install them just to verify they do work.

Then I can choose to put the old set back on or put them in the glove box for known good spares.
You just cant rely on good replacement parts out of the door.

My engine I can use a 70's conversion & use a factory electronic ignition from the newer slant 6 .... pretty sure I will end up there, even though I like points.