Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

From the fingertips of Doug Nye, British motoring journalist...:
"One of Zagato’s craftsmen led us across the workshop, reached down behind a bench, and dragged out the traditional Italian shaping tool upon which he had learned his art. It was a dry-as-a-bone tree stump, with a concave top, bound with iron hoops to prevent it splitting. It was probably more than 100 years old.

He then took a sheet of aluminium, laid it on top of the stump, and began to hammer it down into the concavity. Clang! Bang! Wallop! Thud! – and in a couple of minutes, he had a large dome formed into the aluminium. He took that across to the wooden buck, which was the pattern for the car wing he was making, and offered it up. Tap, tap – that improved the fit. He then picked up a scriber, marked out the section of dome he wanted, and cut it out. He then explained he would then shape a neighbouring section, and another, and another, to be welded to the first. And at the end of the day, the complex compound-curved metal body panel that he required would be ready for assembly onto the host car chassis."

So yes, it's just metal calculus, if you want to think of it like that. Lots of really short straight / flat bits all connected together in varying angles to create varying curves.

You can read the full article here: https://www.goodwood.com/grr/column...s-could-show-modern-restorers-a-thing-or-two/

 

I've been down the rabbit hole! You're right, this guy makes it look like someone like me has a chance at making something that looks okay at 50 feet going by at 75 mph. I've tried hammering out things in the past, always stretching the metal trying to get it to look like it was supposed to, with limited success. His tuck and lock it in procedure makes a lot of sense.

Then I saw a video of him making a wireframe. I had started to make something similar mainly to get the opening in the nose cut out to a more open, pleasing shape. So I added a couple more pieces of welding rod after putting some tape on the nose to protect it from the tack welding I needed to do.

Ran out of rod so here's where it stands today. Later this week after I get some more of the heavy welding rod, I'll finish up the wireframe, and see what it looks like. I also saw in one of the videos that he cut a sheet of paper to drape over the wireframe to get a template for cutting out the sheetmetal he was going to use. And he cut V's in the paper to make it drape better, which he then explained was also areas to be tucked and shrunk to get the shape.

Well, I can try! And try! And try...

It's been a learning experience, so I might as well keep going.

 

Glad to see this grill coming about! You're definitely on the right track!!

 

You got this. Hey if I am working to become a better body man so can you!

 

Dave, this was my first attempt and forming a shape like what you are doing, that was 11 years ago. It needed the hole blanked of as it was a Bonneville car. You would be amazed at what you can do with a tucking stump, and some shrinkers.

 

I'm thankful for encouragement. Marty what material did you use for that nose insert? I'm thinking about 3003 aluminum dead soft and let it work harden. Am I on the right track?

 

That's what I use, here is an example that I annealed and beat into submission, and used a HF wheel to roll out the lumps. I used half hard, not dead soft.

 

Beautiful Marty!
I am amazed every time I see a piece of sheet metal all beat up from being hammered into rough shape and then wheeled out to smooth compound curves. I wish I had started doing that type of stuff way earlier.

 

Thanks Marty. And now you've given me the excuse to use with SWMBO on why I'm buying another tool!

Way back in the modifieds days I used the half hard for internal panels and the hood and that big lump covering the injectors. But that all had no compound curves. In fact most were 90 degree bends in a homemade brake. 2 pieces of angle iron, a piece of 3/8×4 or 6 inch crs bar stock, and some barn door hinges. But it was only 20 gauge thickness.

The nose was just a simple piece with 2 bends made around some 1 inch pipe. Amazing to think thru 4 seasons and 3 rebuilds changing everything but the seat, pedals, and the hood, that the only damage to the hood was inflicted by me by hand. Oh well I was young and had a bad temper in those days...

 

Just came in from the garage. I watched a number of those metal forming videos and realized that I don't want to spend a lot of money until I know I'm somewhat able to even start beating the heck out of some metal, like Marty showed. Which means finding ways to get there for cheap. I started with this:
That hammer has had so many handles and head inserts in the 50 years I've had it, and it was in the machine shop where I worked for years before that. The assistant foreman gave it to me when we got 2 new versions to use on the assembly floor, as it wouldn't stay tight anymore. It used to be fastened together with flathead screws. And the countersinks were afu. It wasn't worth the time to repair it, so I ended up with it.

A new handle, counterbored for socket head cap screws and viola, I had a new to me hammer. 2 chunks of high density nylon and it had new hammer surfaces. Over the years I've had high density polyethylene, lead, copper and until today, what it originally came with, rawhide pucks. They are on the workbench. Now it has whatever the material is that Harbor Fright used in a plastic hammer. Feels like nylon but I'm guessing. Cut it in half and it fits in the head perfectly.

And I had some leftover high density nylon sheet, 3/4 inch thick, so I have a good start on that guy's "metalworking stump".

And the neighbor's got more 4x4 scrap as well. Life is good when you can get there cheap...

Oh, and the head has good weight to it. It's a 4 pound head, so I don't have to destroy my old arm applying excess force...

 

Dave, the 1/4 scale Willys in my avatar was my first foray into metalshaping after watching videos and reading anything related to it. I built a station buck based on a 1/25 Revell model of the '41 and then a reciprocating hammer and an English Wheel from internet plans.
I also picked up a number of Tuck Pucks which take the place of the dish in a stump, but never used them on the model. Rather all the shapes were done from the flat on the wheeling machine in 22 gage. The stump allows you to rough shape quickly, but with the thin metal I could not afford to stretch such small pieces. I have used them to shape other parts for my current project.
There is a steep learning curve, but I have been able to apply those skills to the '50 Austin that drew me away from the Willys.

 

Now that's an interesting concept. I could make a similar stand to fit the square hole in the anvil, and shape some pucks like that from the hd nylon stock I have on the lathe. The stuff works like wood, so fast and easy to make. Hmmm...

 

There you go. I cast the bench block mount to match the Hardy hole in my anvil so I can use them either place.

 

I see a shot bag in your future.

 

After it cools off today, I'm going to check with the neighbor and see if in his collection of stuff if he's got some rr spikes. Should be just right for the hardy hole in his anvil, and good steel for making similar uprights. The hardest part will be cutting the hd nylon stock into circle blanks. I'll post a picture or two of the results if it turns out good...

 

Dave G : On your grille, a possible suggestion : instead of welding rod, how about using 1/4" or 3/8" gasline tubing? It could still be rolled without "kinking" with a bender, & would make the vertical ribs be more in proportion like an old CAE grille? Just a thought...

 

So many options, how to choose? Help Mr. Wizard!

Trizzle, trazzle, trozzle, trome. Time for this one to come home...

Tutor the Turtle cartoons...

Yup, I'm losing it

 

The way my mind works (or doesn't some would say), it occurred to me that your suggestion was to combine what Marty showed, i.e. beating some sheet aluminum into the shape of the nose for the perimeter and cut out the center, welding in some aluminum tubing for the grille bars. See it took a while, but I got it...

 

That is what I am planning for my build too. I was not happy with my first effort though. I will fix or replace. It was not symmetric enough.

 

Yeah, but you already know how to beat metal into submission! I'm a rank amateur. And I do mean rank!

That one looks fine to me btw. And remember no one will ever notice the asymmetry when its going by at speed...

 

At this rate, I'm going to have to come visit for a month or more! Lathe / machining, welding, now tucking and shrinking...

 

Doesn't your company want to expand into upstate New York? Sell them on establishing a foothold...

 

Didn't want to start a squabble, sorry guys! Every time I try to use welding rod or wire to visualize, the wire doesn't give me enough "body"(if that makes any sense) : : I seem to need something with more size to be able to see the proportions better, & that's why I suggested using the 1/4" or 3/8" gas line tubing, & if I liked where it wound up, I could weld out a rough "master" to use to make a mold to cast my own grille... Or not...

 

Nickel/copper brake tube is easier to form. Unrolling it and straightening it out might be a challenge.

 

Dave, I have many RR spikes in stock. Collected them for yard art. If you need some can drop off a few for you. Let me know.. Wife made me beater bags.. Used shot for inside medium.

 

I could use a couple or so. Besides it's time for you to stop by and get a look see at the Whatever project.

I have a question for everyone regarding shotbags, sandbags or other forms of soft somethings to beat metal on. I seem to remember seeing somewhere that people have used things like towels piled up to some thickness. Is it just my imagination or have people done something like that?

 

Okay, so I'm even more conflicted about the grille now. I came across a Ferrari eggcrate style grille and it triggered a memory of another racecar grille, both of which look good.
Here's the racecar grille. You may recognize it as the Unser Pikes Peak multi-time race winning car. And here's the Ferrari eggcrate style grille
Both of them are nice. But how do I make one? FTFs nose, and more specifically, the insert, looks like a good way to get started. The slats I would think would be easy, once I have a contour I like. They can be cut out from flat stock to the required contours. And slotted to fit together where horizontal and vertical slats intersect. And I believe that I would silver braze it. And like I was thinking previously, maybe make it out of stainless steel. It should polish up really nicely.

But it still needs the outer surround part. Should I still attempt to make it in one piece and then cut away what's not needed? And like FTF, make a hoop type of thing trimmed to the outer contour of the nose, welded or brazed, to give something to attach the slats to?

Maybe now that the back is feeling better, I'll get back to work on the chassis and finish up on the fabrication of the stuff still pending, and wait for divine guidance, or really great suggestions from everyone...

 

And I've been rereading FTFs posts about his nose and grille! This time I bookmarked it so I can get back to it easily...

That's all for now...

 

Dave, I had bars laser cut from 3/16 - 6061 sheet, for Dennis Webb to build the grille for the Spalding copy roadster. After all the trouble, Pat acquired an original Art Engels NOS grille.

 

Thanks Marty. I knew that I had seen something like that somewhere in the depths of the hamb. Just couldn't remember where, and it was from the master!

Do you think aluminum would be appropriate for the Whatever project? I've worked with a place local that does waterjet cutting for some brackets for the Whatever project, and they can hold ridiculously tight dimensions, and not crazy money. They can cut out any material so I could provide the alloy to make the slats from. With good planning I'm sure they could even cut the interlocking notches.