I'm about to freshen up a 68 327 SBC, and a Cam and lifters is needed, as the current grind is an HO 305 and really lame, I think a lifter is bad too. Needs a L79 350hp 327 or something equivalent. I wanted to do a retrofit Hydraulic roller cam but the reviews are not encouraging, plus the cost is very high. Around a grand for that, with questionable reliability. I've heard bad things about Howards, and Comp. retrofit roller lifters. Or, roll the dice with another flat tappet cam and GM lifters, which I hear are the best bet for flat tappet, but I've also been reading a lot about wiped cam lobes lately. A buddy suggested getting a roller short block, which isn't a bad idea. But that's another cost on top of everything else. I'm literally on hold with the Comp Cams tech line as I type this.... but there are like 20 in the queue so I might try back another day. Thoughts?
I have a Howard's retrofit roller in my SBC, it's been almost 6 years without any problems. It was substantially less expensive than the other brands when I bought it.
In that 6 years a little thing called COVID made everything more expensive. But thanks for the recommendation.
To quote my friend @lumpy 63 , Johnson lifters are the only option if you're going flat tappet. I'm not afraid of flat tappet lifters, they don't scare me enough to make me spend a fortune on roller lifters, because roller lifters have their own issues unless you spend the cash on good ones, which are generally made by Johnson for the cam vendors. I just suffered my first failure in 35 years, and it was because I bought cheap lifters.
I would never consider a flat tappet camshaft again for a fresh engine. Too many issues with wiping out lifters and lobes, then pushing a bunch of fine metal through your engine. No thanks. A thousand dollars is a small price to pay for not ever having to deal with that. I've had lots of friends run Howard's roller cams without any issues. That's what's in the Grinch. I'd also run any of the big name American brands (Comp, Isky, Crower, etc). Summit has roller retrofit kits in the scratch and dent section all the time I got a Howard's kit a while back for $300 and it was complete including all 16 roller lifters.
I was recently inducted into the flat cam club on a $10k BBC and saw what it does to a brand new motor. That motor is still in the shop in need of all new bearings. I ended up re-ringing the old motor and putting a hydraulic roller in it. Too many horror stories on flat tappet motors anymore.
When I think about it, a flat cam in most circumstances is more damaging than a bad roller lifter. Just sucks that there seems to be some serious quality control problems in the aftermarket.
I put a camshaft in the big block in my off topic Chevelle winter before last. I went with isky flat tappet. I figured a company that has been in business that long wouldn’t jeopardize their reputation by selling crap lifters. Also I set the distributor in time and filled the float bowls on the carb. It didn’t make a complete revolution before it was running at 2500 rpms. Couldn’t have gone any better...
Yeah I know the error of my ways was the "economically priced" lifters I chose. But I've rolled the dice on them before and won lmao! 1 out of anywhere from 30 to 40 engines ain't bad I guess. But a perfect record would've been better. My machinist is one of the most anal guys you'll ever meet when it comes to building engines, and he won't shut up about roller this, roller that, he has a late model Camaro that he just built a super duper out of sight this and that LS for, best of everything, but guess what, he has a bad roller lifter, and the car is sitting at the chassis dyno tuner guys shop, he's gotta go pick it up and take it all back apart lmao
This is about a SBC, which is the most popular for hot rods and racing here in the US. That means all the issues are well known and a wide variety of parts are available. Bad flat lifters are known, so you gotta find a good reputable supplier and pay the price or take your chances. The other side of the coin with roller cams and lifters is the distributor/oil pump drive gear. This is where the popularity of the SBC helps. In other brands, this gear is often only available as a bronze gear, which a known failure point for low to mid RPM steady state street use. I agree that it stinks the commonly available replacement parts (and/or oils) are questionable and the blame game has not produced a clear path to quality. Has anyone found a company that will properly warrant their products? If you document that each lifter is turning when lash is set and the engine is spun by hand, that you use a recommended lube and start up procedure, you should be covered.
I'm going to use a solid roller cam in the Whatever project 327. And yes good rollers are in the budget. A little bit of time spent adjusting the valves now and then seems like a good way to get off the couch. Besides, I'm using a vintage Summers gear drive from way back. I love the sound of all those mechanical bits doing their thing. And the straight cut qc gears... Ahhh, heaven! No need for a sound system when you can listen to a mechanical symphony
I was asking my local engine builder about doing another SBC for a project. He said he no longer does any SBC's with a flat tappet cam, he strictly does roller cams and roller rocker arms. Says he got sick of warranting flat tappet cam motors even after he gave them instructions on what oil he recommended and how to start the engine and break it in. These days he very rarely lets one out of the shop without a break in run.
I’ve only ever broken in one flat tappet cam and I was successful, but still I wouldn’t consider myself skilled in that arena
A couple years ago, during Covid, we had a flat tappet cam failure during break in. Chevy BBC, Crane stuff. I posted images on here then. What we learned was there were 3 manufactures of lifters still made in America. Johnson Lifters, High Lift Johnson's and Morel. All others are made in Mexico, offshore or with offshore inferior materials. One of my customers, Chet Staron, is President and CEO of Top Line Automotive, the owner of High Lift Johnson. During the Covid manufacturing shut down in Michigan, High Lift Johnson was backordered over 1 million flat tappet hydraulic units. He was able to supply me with 2 sets of Race hydraulic flat tappet lifters. The difference between a stock lifter was bleed down rate, higher Rockwell hardness, snap ring retainer instead of wire ring among other stuff. I have since then used both sets, without issue. Not 100% sure, but the way I understood it was Top Line moved a bunch of manufacturing equipment to a new facility in Florida from Michigan. During the move over 1 Million dollars of equipment never made it to Florida. It is rumored/alleged that the people involved had something to do with Johnson Lifters, also from Michigan. One person was convicted and went to prison. He and other employees were former employees of High lift Johnson. Those would be the only flat tappet lifter manufactures, I would use. For roller lifters, its Isky or Crower. We try and stay away from flat tappet cams if possible. Bill
Seems to me that it's all in the metallurgy now, and not so much in the lubrication/ break in. When I was a younger man, we used the lube that came with the cam, sometimes lol. Nowadays we're more cautious about it, but there are far more failure. We used to stab the cam in with white lithium grease on it, throw the lifters in a bowl with 30w oil, then assemble. Never an issue. Not the case these days. You take a chance on just about everything you do. As crazy as it sounds, I've heard guys talk about using "used" lifters because they were from a better time period.
If you have to completely rebuild the 327 , pistons etc. you might consider a later 350 roller block , it's quite a bit cheaper to build a roller that way but you have to use the later flywheel because they are externally balanced. I am building a flat tappet motor for myself right now with a Howards cam and Johnson lifters and as Moriarty said make sure it will fire right off with no screwing around....
I am considering a roller block but it’s not a full rebuild. There’s not a lot of miles on the motor and it didn’t use oil and had good oil pressure. I’m planning a top end swap, cam, lifters, heads and intake but will inspect everything and look for ring ridge, pull off a rod and main cap and look at the bearings. I expect it to be fine, but if it’s not then I’ll for sure look for a roller block.
How about some of the custom cam grinders, do they offer flat tappet cams, what are they offering or suggesting for lifters?
Johnson lifters are what almost every good engine builder uses (I guess!) Heck if they're what Isky uses and Delta cams recommends good nuff. I think I read where Johnson is the only US comp. that MAKES lifters (Not just re-box 'em like Comp Cams) Before just buying something off-the-shelf from 'somebody'...remember it's just as cheap to get a custom ground cam that accents what YOU want in a cam. Do some reading...ask some questions...get YOUR cam ground that clicks all-the-boxes. Heck....get YOUR cam reground at Delta!! (that's been their specialty for the last several decades) 6sally6
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