Technical Rebuild or Buy Engine? '57 Super Chief

Hi All,

The motor in my 57 Super Chief is seized. Did everything to try and get it to spin (yes, all tricks including a mechanic came over). It's been sitting for a very long time. The question is, do I take it apart and rebuild it or should I buy another engine? There are Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am 350 engines out there for $500 running. Will a 350 bolt up to the stock '57 transmission? I'm looking for a cost and somewhat time efficient solution.

 

I’d tear down the engine first.

 

I just spit coffee all over my keyboard. I'm not sure what adapter would even be available. Usually they mate up newer transmissions to older engines. I doubt things will bolt up as you think they may. Like it was suggested, take the old one out and strip it down. Old blocks like that can take a re-bore easily if it is needed.

 

I think I would pull that one apart as mentioned or start looking for a similar age Pontiac engine that someone pulled out to put some late model drivetrain in. A buddy of mine bought a complete 57 tripower 347 with transmission out of a nice restored and running car for about $1000 recently. Trying to adapt a later model motor can be done but isn’t as easy as it seems at times.

 

If its a Canadien car it likely has a Chevy (SBC) engine and drive train.
If its a true Pontiac anything from 55-60 should drop in.

 

Good point on the Canadian version. I didn’t think of that although did notice the OP username.

 

>>>yes, all tricks including a mechanic came over>>>

If it was mine, I'd first pull the intake & heads to better see what I was up against. Then fill the cyls with MMO & crankcase with Diesel. Then let it marinate for a week or two. Then initially try to get just a wee bit of back & forth movement. Gradually increasing the degree of movement. Be patient. It should come loose.

 

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Now I know that anything later than a '60 will not drop in. It is an American car therefore gotta stay with Pontiac. I'll follow you opinions and tear it down to see where it stands. Maybe with heads pulled and compression lessened, and with some more penetrating fluids, I may get it to turn.

 

Since the engine is locked up, you have another potential issue waiting...
is the transmission in any kind of operating condition? Those are expensive to rebuild if you can even find someone who knows how to do it. Just throwing this out there as fyi.

 

Keep in mind, I think starting in ‘82? Firebirds and TAs had SBCs in them, not Pontiac V8’s.

 

I’d go with one of those new fangled 389 for 1959. But I’m weird like that.

 

In 1961, Pontiac started using what is the BOP pattern. With that in mind, Pontiac continued to use the dual coupling hydramatic (stratoflight from 1956 to 1960) up to 1964. Therefore, the 61-64 dual coupling hydramatics can be mated to the BOP patterned engines, which include the 350, 400, 455 Pontiacs. The OP transmission could just use a 1961-64 dual coupling hydramatic bell housing in place of the original bell housing.

 

I don’t trust used engines, it’s buying a pig at poke.

I have seen and heard too many horror stories, about used engines “That ran” letting people down after a few hundred miles or less.

$500.00 would go a long way toward machine work or parts.

If you are going to run a used engine, put a new oil pump in it.

 

I consider ANY used engine as a core.

 

Hi All,

My preference is to change out the motor. What motor options do I have to choose from? I know the mounts are front and back (not on sides) so my understanding is I can't select anything newer than a '59.

 

A Pontiac mill from 55-60 will bolt in and 347s, 370s are out there.
If you are going to save your trans, you will need to pull the oil pan and cut the back of the crank off to unbolt the trans!

 

Ah, those Tin Indians...

 

This is where I’d better keep quiet rather than getting a bunch of rocks thrown at me.

 

What does the rest of the car look like? It might not even be worth investing any money if it’s rusty.

 

The rest of the car is in good shape. Frame is almost perfect, body is solid. The motor is seized. I've pulled everything down to the block and all the inside is covered in rust. It was obviously left to dry out and has sat for many years. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars getting the block dipped, heads machined and adding new parts to it. That's why I'm thinking of just buying a motor (if I can find one).

@Truckdoctor Andy - let's hear it.

 

If possible find a 326 from a mid 60’s LeMans and its transmission would be a good bet. They look close to your original engine and transmissions are way better. If your engine is toast….I’m betting the trans is too. Good luck

 

What is your budget? Cheaper to replace the engine and transmission from the same later model donor car, cooler to keep the engine original. It’s your car your call.

 

@jimmy six - From my understanding, motor mounts changed in 1960 from front/rear to side mounts. According to guys on this forum, any motor beyond 1960 will not slide because of the mounts.

@bill gruendeman - My budget is about $1000 (Canadian). Just the heads and block alone in my engine would cost over $1,000 to clean and machine.

Would a 1950's Chevrolet engine with trans match up? I have heard Pontiac and Chevy motors are different.

 

That's about $750 US. You're going to be pretty lucky to find anything in good order for that, I think.

 

Not hamb friendly, but with that budget you might have to find a running and driving Chevy for a donor car (sbc). Chevys and Pontiac of the 50s are different. With a 1000$ budget you need to be a good shopper and keep it very simple and basic.

 

I hate to break it to the OP, but a $1000 budget is not realistic on any front for the scope of work discussed here.

For obsolete engines, whether it be the Pontiac here, an Olds, Cadillac, Y block, FE... $1000 doesn't buy the parts you need, not to mention one second of labor. I just checked quickly online, and the cheapest source I could find for even a rering kit for the 347 is $750, and that doesn't include cam, lifters or any incidentals. A full engine kit is $2000, which of course doesn't account for any machine work at all. When it comes to these obsolete engines, I think a full, proper rebuild starts at $5000 and goes up from there. It's just the nature of the beast.

The idea of swapping in a Chevy as a cheap alternative also has its pitfalls. What you save on engine parts price you spend reengineering a new platform into your car. Now you need a new starter, exhaust, radiator hoses, engine mounts, trans crossmember.... the list goes on and on. This will nickel and dime you to death to the point that it basically becomes a wash had you just rebuilt the engine that came with the car. Though you may save a few dollars, you will also spend an inordinate amount of time doing the engine swap properly, which also has to be accounted for.

As mentioned, finding a donor car with a SBC is likely your only chance at doing this for $1000. But even then, you're going to have to be very judicious, and you're still taking your chances with another used engine. I've done this with mixed results. The 383 Chrysler I have has ran reliably for 20 years and cost $300 after pulling it out from underneath some dude's work bench. The 305 Chevy I pulled out of a running and driving Caprice Wagon lasted 60 miles in my C/10 before grinding to a halt.

 

A few more questions.

1. Will heads from other Pontiac motors (389, 400) fit on my 347 without issue?

2. Will any chevy parts fit to my engine (i.e manifold, alternator, fuel pump)

You must excuse my ignorance and potentially idiotic questions as this is a first time build for me, so I'm learning.

 

You happen to have the wrong car for Canada. Canadian Pontiacs such as Pathfinders, Laurentians, and Strato Chiefs are basically Chevys with Pontiac looking bodies. They also have Chevy engines. American Pontiacs are way scarcer here.

 

At the risk of getting rocks thrown at me, I’d pull the Pontiac engine and transmission out, dump them in the scrap pile, and install a 350 Chevy with a 700-R4. I understand a lot of guys won’t like my solution, but it’s relatively cheap, and makes good power and will be reliable and easy to work on.

 

What's your experience with mechanical work, like engine swaps, chassis refurbishment etc...? Sounds to me like your entire car budget is $1k, which is unreasonable considering just tires alone will be that much. If your goal is a running driving car, I'd be tackling chassis, brakes, and the wiring before I worry about engine swaps.

As to your questions:

The 389-era Pontiac engine is a different architecture than the 1957 Engine. And considering you mentioned the 347 in the car is totally seized, that would mean having the engine totally rebuild by a machine shop, which is more than your budget will allow.

I'd like to see pics of the car overall, we might be able to steer you in the right direction if we knew what we're working with.