Hot Rods The "Whatever" project

Marty, I see you used a Harbor Freight English Wheel when you did this nose. Some questions about it. 1 is it adequate for a beginner? 2 extra lower wheels, did you buy them or make them? 3 would it make it a little bit better with some reinforcements?

I'm entertaining the idea of getting one and seeing how much metal I can destroy...

 

I did have one, built Jim's Lakester with it. So, yes it would be fine for a beginner. When I bought mine, they offered the full set of lower wheels. I think some of the other brands like Woodward Fab will interchange. It would also be good if you could pickup some .080 -3003 for the face plate on the grille. It might be more of a struggle to shape, but I think you need the thickness. There are several threads on reinforcement, for the machine. Good luck.

 

Thanks Marty. The local harbor freight has one in stock. Might not after tomorrow.

Should I get that sheetstock in half hard? Or will I have to anneal it regardless?

 

You need 3003 alloy

 

Thanks Marty. 3003 it is.

 

2-4×8 0.063 sheets of 3003 h14, approximately $450. it's not the 70's anymore...

I guess it's the price I have to pay. The 2 sheets should make the hood, side panels, belly pan, and radiator shroud. Assuming that I don't make more than 2 mistakes per part!

 

From my days in vintage aircraft restoration, make parts out of card stock. Easy to cut with scissors and hold together with tape. Measure many times before cutting the aluminum and make the parts slightly oversize and trim to final fit. I saw many builders with barrels of scrap aluminum in their hangars. Card stock is much cheaper.

 

That design is very similar to what I want to end up with. My local metal supplier lists 1/8 x 1/4 aluminum bar stock in their inventory. With my recently completed edge bending and un-bending fixtures I plan to use bar stock, make card stock templates and form the appropriate arch and TIG them into the underside of the surround. I am still not entirely happy with my surround so job 1 is to get it to a happy place. Then add the bars. For your dear readers who do not follow my champ car build I will repost pics here if you please, along with a pic of my home built E-wheel, which I fabbed because I wanted it tall enough to fit my frame comfortably.

EDIT: Now I am wondering if it would be possible to make up some simple edge bending dies for an English wheel? I had a Diacro bender available, so that was an easier route for me but I can see the posibility of a 3-roller die set for an E-wheel, no? Maybe even powered by a cordless drill??

 

Yes I believe in CAD, cardboard aided design. Marty recommended that I get floor protecting stock at a big box store, as it's also cheap, and can make big templates.

You may remember the butcher's paper hood pictures earlier on. It took 6 or 8 layers to get it stiff enough. But it's not really practical.

And ftf, I've been revisiting your thread as well. I was looking at the bending fixtures you've done, and looking thru the available stuff to make things out of. I've got gears and bearings and other assorted things that might look like a bendy rolly thingie sort of device for use in the press. Hey I designed an earthquake simulating test rig decades ago at Battelle. I ought to be able to make a simple bending fixture.

 

I don't know what you mean by edge bending dies.

 

I've heard it referred to as bending the hard way. It's easy to roll a ring for instance on the flat side. It's harder to roll it on edge. FTF has made some unique fixtures so I'm picturing something that bends the stock on edge.

 

That is correct Dave. I've never seen how champ cars attached the instrument panel to the cowl so I decided to make a curved flange, welded in to the cowl. I imagine the concept I am employing is not unlike results you can get with a ring roller and special dies. Not having one I decided to use a DiAcro bender and make a bending fixture from an old tractor gear and scrap aluminum. I made one fixture to bend and another fixture to "unbend" since there were places where I put too much bend in the flange and I had to press some of it back out. In this case the flange is 1/16" 4130 and I'll probably just drill-n-tap some holes around it and hold the panel down with small screws.

For the nosepiece grille bars I can envision using the bender to add gentle curves and welding them all to the underside of the surround. I may weld them on flush with the surround, or I may weld them to the backside. Dunno. I'll probably sand all the bars down a bit to get them even before polishing.

 

Your debend fixture gives me an idea for a bend fixture for use in my shop press. I'm going to make it this week and see if it works. I'll post results. For those of us who don't have all of the shop toys, yet!

 

...maybe something like this, with the appropriately sized shoes and roller dies?

 

Sort of, kind of...

I think it's going to need side guides to hold the metal from twisting. I'm thinking that the side guides would be sort of like the guides on bandsaws. Only made beefier to control the possibility of sideways deflection. So the lower portion would entail 2 substantial bushed rollers, to better withstand the downward pressure, and 2 guide blocks, for lack of the proper term for them, for each side of the bar being bent on each side. Total of 4.

The ram would need a similar arrangement, and also be constrained to not rotate under pressure. So once again plaigerizing your ideas, and adapting to the jod at hand.

Yeah, I know, I'm the "Great Plaigerizer"! You've inspired me to greater heights... and depths! So first I've got to make a surround for the nose, like you did. And I have most of the materials to cobble together a bending fixture. Then to decide on thickness and width of the bars.

And I need to get the wheels back on. And still haven't gotten the 327 to the engine shop. Order some 3003. Clean up the garage...

And other stuff keeps getting in the way. But that's life...

 

Nice fixture Marty.

 

If I can venture west later this summer, is there going to be anything remaining for me to help with??

 

So im tardy in the reply.

Things to do? Oh yeah there's going to be things to do. I'll update the to do list and send it to you later today or tomorrow.

 

Got a new to me engine today, for the Whatever project:

It's a little bit crusty, but if it checks out as we think, it might be an unicorn engine, i.e. a true low mileage barn find. It came out of a 58 Chevy that's getting an LS I Walt said. If that's not right, Walt, jump in and tell us the plan for the 58.

Anyway, the car is very rust free, and my understanding of the car is that the engine bay was no crustier than the engine. I'm going to pull a valve cover off this afternoon and have a look. Here's the casting number:
More later...

 

Just had a look see under the valve covers, and it was not too bad. Some sludge, as would be expected, but the oil drainback holes are still open. I bet the inside will have some but shouldn't be a problem for the short term.

The heads have this number (I think...): 3748772. Now to look those up and see what they are.

 

Thanks to X-cpe, I finally know what I want to do for the exhaust; tri-Ys! These are his, full description of the interconnections between cylinders is over on the 327 thread. A few less tubes to get down thru the frame. The next parts order is going to be big! Flywheel, extended pilot bushing, ARP flywheel bolts, clutch pressure plate and bolts, header kits! Yeah big $$$.

Jegs, Speedway, Summit, a couple of others, compare and contrast cost and brands. Hey, it's only money...

 

Is that a home-brew tri-Y exhaust setup?

 

They look professionally made to me. But with the talent most of these guys have, I'm going to make a WAG here, and say he built them hisself!

Needless to say, I have 2 header kits on order, and will be trying to make a set like that for the Whatever project.

 

Absolutely fulfilling thread, battles some of the monsters in my past and current projects!
My grille surround was cut from .080" stainless, and the bars were 1/4" stainless rod. After heli-arc, previously polished surround and rods were finish-'finessed' around the welds, just beautiful.
1/4" stainless bolts beheaded and welded onto back of surround, so no visible bolts or fasteners.
Not my concept, I copied the greats, Lem Tolliver and Ron Covell, who resided in my town at the time...

 

Okay you're hired! If you ever visit the Adirondacks, you'll be welcome to spend a week here fabricating a grille...

 

The latest quandary: got 2 sets of header kits. The 2nd showed up today. Sprintcar style. And so well bent that with only some slight fettling, they should go together easily. And the flanges were laser cut, no slag and fit the heads perfectly.

Now here's the quandary: do I take the easy path, and run the headers just outside of the frame, or go crazy and reshape everything in an attempt to make a set like those posted above?

Tomorrow I'll finish up reassembling the front suspension and then I guess I'll have to mock up the headers as designed to see if I can live with them. If not, well there's a cutting torch, band saw, tig and mig, hammers, anvil, grinders, cutoff saws...

 

Got the 283 in today. Clearances worked out on everything, except for the exhaust I'd like to make. 1st the pictures:
Looking good from this angle.
Seems okay here too.

Snug, but adequate clearance. Remember with that overkill firewall/engine plate system, the engine isn't going to move at all.

Look at that! The fan clears! And the radiator is on the other side of the crossmember. So another project is a shroud for the fan. I'm thinking 1 inch clearance around the blades, flairing out to the nose... Time for CAD, cardboard aided design.


But I don't have any clearance by the left side of the engine for headers between the engine and the frame. Seems there's a steering shaft down there halfway between the 2! Doh!

So Plan B. The 2nd set of header kit is a sprintcar headers set.And it's just wide enough to clear the suspension components outside of the frame, with roughly 2 inches of clearance. And the collectors appear to line up with the lower frame tubes.

Yes, sometimes even a blind squirrel finds the nut... with apologies to squirrel!

 

Can we see the other headers?

 

Uhh, it's just a box of bent exhaust pipe... right now both are. I was figuring that a set of those tight fit headers in kit form could be used to make the tri-Y style of headers. But there's really no room down the left side. I don't think I could fit a 2 inch down pipe from a rams horn manifold. And I don't even think a rams horn would fit inside my hoped for hood line.

So plan b, sprint car style, just outside of the frame. Oh well...

I'm going to start on them tomorrow and see how they look.

And that left side picture above, the 1st, is misleading. What can't be seen is the shaft running parallel to the frame rail between the rail and the engine.

 

Have you considered sprint car style headers without the collectors and individual baffles? Tuck them in as close to the frame as they will fit.