Technical Opinions: Order of Operations

Let's say hypothetically one has a project car that needs absolutely everything. You're embarking on a complete, all-in build.

I think generally speaking, it makes the most sense to attack mechanicals before getting into bodywork and paint. It might even speed the process to divorce the body from the chassis at this point, too.

However, on a body specifically, where do you find it best to begin and why?

Do you brace the car up and take the doors off? Do you replace the quarters first and address any issues there in the inner fenders? Do you fix the floors and inner rockers first, essentially cutting the whole bottom out of the car, and build from there? If the latter is the best route, and that would be my suspicion, what do you attach new floors and inner rockers to if the quarters and outer rockers are also trashed? It would seem at some point you need to work off of something that is at least mostly where it should be, and replace the bad around it, and then come back to address it later.

I'd love to hear from some folks who have been on this journey.

 

If the car is as bad as you say, your frame becomes the "jig" brace and true up ON the frame (make sure it is true to start) , then start replacing parts. Usually the sills and pans first to bring back the strength BEFORE cutting off quaters etc. OT Mopars are the worst. I got to be involved with a couple.

 

When I did my roadster it needed subrails and floors and lower patches. I started by bracing the body up welding in angle iron up top to keep it stiff, cut out the subrails and started with them. I zip screwed everything together to make sure everything was in place properly before welding. If something is off it's a lot easier to readjust a zip screw, you're going to weld up the holes later anyway.

Like Tman said I kept the car on the original frame until the body was repaired, even though I was putting it on a '32 frame.

 

I've managed to start with better cars than that, so I don't have any such experience. Aside from suggesting you start with a better body.

 

I would generally agree with you, but it's a desirable, low production car where a "better body" is going to cost me $40K, and would still probably need half of the patch panels the wreck I have does. I think under these circumstances, I'm best served fixing what I have.

 

In that case, probably so. Posting pictures of it will get you more helpful answers, as usual.

I like Tman's suggestion to work on one part at a time, and also constantly check the fit of everything as you work on each part. Don't leave the doors sitting somewhere else while you're working on the floor, for example, as the floor affects how the doors fit.

 

Build the body from the back to front. Start with the tailpan and brace. Rockers and floors next in that Nomad. How's the cowl?

 

Panel figment is the most important.
So I’ll align doors first. Even if there isn’t much there for doors to hang on.
I helped with a 32 Chevy sedan. All the wood was rotten. Floors gone. We suspended the body from the roof of the building. Aligned the doors while adding braces. Got a nice flow then set the body on the chassis and started building.
For the wife’s 56, the doors fit decent. Left the body on the frame and lifted the car with the weight on its suspension. Then tackled the inner rockers and floor braces.

 

I blow them apart, I consentrate on the chassis and get it to the point of painting, then blow it apart and paint, reassemble and cover it up and wait.

Then start on the body, usually most of the parts have been stored in the project, sand blast, patch panels, modifications, bodywork. HRP

 

Its going to vary with the car of choice, its condition, and what you want it to be when finished.

First thing I would do is build a movable cart that the body can sit on. The bigger the caster wheels the better. I've bought things that have large casters already on them just to get the casters.


This thing rolls around with one finger......

Then check the body to see if it needs any temp bracing. Measure the width of the rear fenders.....minus tire clearance. Just in case you are going to change the rear end or put different tires and wheels back there.

Remove the body from the frame. Don't lift with a strap through the door windows as it may bend the metal. Use a bar or beam through the doors and hoist the body up. Put it on the cart and move it out of the way.

Now build and recondition the frame and suspension and install the engine and trans. You don't have to paint it all, just get everything to fit.

Then sit the body back on it and begin your body repairs.

If you can locate some of those old "air jacks" that shops used to have, they are great for lifting a frame to working level rather than bending over to do everything.

One of these at each end of the frame. You can sell them and get your money back when done. Prices vary but about $200 ea. You will love them ........

 

The cowl and firewall seem fine, at least down to the pinch weld in the toe boards. Real Deal Steel sells an entire 1 piece floor pan for that car with braces and inner rockers attached. It seems like a no-brainer to resolve every floor issue from the toe boards to the rear splash pan in one fell swoop. But the outer rockers are going to need to be replaced too and both quarters are atrocious. So it's like, what do you attach those new floors to, you know?

 

The new floor will probably have the inner rockers. You’ll have to lift the body off the frame eventually during this Get the best door gap you can, weld in some braces. Remove the floor and rockers.
I’d leave the qtrs to align the doors. If you need the lower qtrs removed to do the outer rockers, remove em. then start piecing it together.
Do the outer rockers after the floor and inner rockers are fit.
I’d recommend new body bushings to be installed during the floor replacement.

 

Frame seems straight and solid and shows no outward signs of damage, including the stanchions for the body mounts. The floor braces are rusty but seem sturdy enough to not be flapping around. The floor seems to be the first place to start, essentially work from the ground up

 

X2 on body mounts being good.
A wise builder once told me “we’re building what used to be parts cars, you have to restore em before you customize em”

there is no rule saying you can’t do both at the same time. We did many times.
If custom firewalls and floors are needed, do both.
Nothing wrong with a block and trans in place while you build.

 

I'm in on the build of my buddy's 72 Corvette currently, we stripped it to the very last bolt and nut. It's not my shot of bourbon, but he's my buddy so I'm pretty involved with it, fortunately, he found some dimensions online and we used those to build a jig/ cart to bolt the body to. Makes me wonder, if a man could apply this to any car, by getting measurements from the floor to the body mount locations on the frame, and on center side to side, front to back.....

 

That would work if you make the cart/jig very accurately....

 

My boss said the same thing about restoring them first.

We did several methods. All using body data and measurements. 1, the frame becomes your jig. 2, You use a doner frame and build a permanent jig if you plan on more than one of this body style (Most common in early Ford stuff) OR #3, build a cart/dolly out of metal or wood. I think I spent about 5 years total at the shop and all methods were employed depending on the type of car/project.

Another method we used often is our 4 post lift. A car could be staged on the lift and braces even clamped or tack welded in place right to the lift rails. Was fine if you knew the lift would not be tied up forever!

 

We built the base out of 2X10's, 2X4 uprights, and a set of harbor freight casters. I was amazed at how well it actually worked out lol

 

That's true, and in this case, there isn't even a block or trans in it to begin with. I have an extra 305 and TH350 sitting around, and I want to convert this particular car over to side engine mounts. Might not hurt to slap that in the chassis and build around some known obstructions as well.

I've been watching a bunch of videos on YouTube from Guzzi Fabrication, a dude that does a lot of restoration work on early 60s Impalas. He's cutting these cars apart down to nothing and replacing huge sections with new panels. Not that that is my goal, but it's confidence inspiring to see someone cutting/chiseling out the spot welds on a body seam and placing a new panel in its place, doing some aligning, and welding it back in. But I'm also cognizant that he's someone with 30 years of experience, and I'm not.

My thought at first was to brace up the entire body real well, cut out the entire floor, and lift the floorless body off of the chassis with my 2 post lift. Then mount the new pan to the chassis with new cushions, and drop the body back down on top of it. But I'm not sure how well I'd be able to align floor using that method. I feel like I'd need to be able to get under the chassis to access necessary areas for attachment.

 

2 post lift. That’s a big help.
I’d brace and remove the body. Make sure the frame is square, set the new floor on the chassis with the bushings.
You can make some reference measurements before removing the body. Like the distance from the chassis to the inner rocker on 4 corners.
These cars ain’t new cars. They are not perfect. You do the best you can with what the factory gave ya.
I’ve even dropped plum bobs from the center of the roof to the center of the floor.

 

My experince is that you have to have the body squared up and correctly mounted on the frame with good bodymounts, Fit the doors and brace the crap out of the body then pull it off the frame and set it on your dolly or work cart. All things that I didn't do when I chopped my cab on my truck in 1980/81 when how to chop articles in magazines failed to say a lot about that aspect.
One continual thing I see that guys do wrong is the first thing they do when they get a project home is go out and spend a crap ton of money for new wheels and tires and then said wheels and tires sit in the corner sometimes for years. In a couple of cases that ate up the monthly build budget for the little things you need in a build including welding supplies and having your bottle for torch or welder refilled. Get some roller the right size that hold air and call it good if you even need rollers at that stage. Spend that money on what you actually need at the stage you are working at.
Personally I'd rather get the chassis to a roller stage with suspension, brakes and all chassis mods done even if I don't paint the frame yet. Simply so I can roll it out of the way if I need to. Few of us have the luxury of a home shop big enough to spread a project out so all of it can easily be worked on at the same time. I saw a picture a year or so ago where the guy had built his body cart so it sat just high enough he could roll the chassis in and out from under it. He was able to work on the the lower part of the body that way easily and just roll the chassis out, work on the body and then roll the chassis back in.

 

57Joe - I'm reading along on your thread here because I'm doing rockers & body mounts on my '55 presently. Floors are usable, so I'm ahead a little. Braced it all as Anthony said and bought new mounts as well. Your outer rocker ties into the bottom of the cowl and connects to the 1/4 panel. It establishes the door bottom gap. Also, if the fender is off the car, the rocker should be even with the door. Be sure to lock the door into place with bracing.

 

I'm a big fan of a few well positioned mig welds around the door. Easy enough to cut out when you're done.

 

I would not remove the body until you have everything braced, side to side, front to back. Might even weld the doors to the quarters with correct gaps. Then and only then would I remove the body from the frame. I have done this on a few cars and it has always worked well. If you don't, and put in rockers and floor you will never get correct door gaps. Seen it many times.

 

That works! OR something like Cleco Tabs that you tack in place instead of using Clecos. Easily made out of some scrap sheetmetal. Tack them in place to hold the door into position before getting Western and cutting it all apart

 

And here is where I'm a little conflicted. You're absolutely right in everything you say. But it makes me wonder; is now the time to replace the door if it's going to happen? I can get brand new doors for this car. Do I put them on, gap them to the best of my ability, but dial in the fitment when I put new quarters on? Or do I do the best I can with the doors on the car and then later adjust a new door? I agree with what others have said here and on my other thread that reproduction panels are never perfect to factory ones. But if both panels are going to get replaced, does it really matter that they're not perfect? My gut tells me they could just be gapped to each other. It's not as if I'm trying to fit a reproduction panel or door to an adjacent factory part that has never moved.

 

I had no idea such a product existed. I have a drawer full of clecos, but when it comes to this type of fitment, I generally wind up using those panel clamps with the little square bar that goes on the backside. They're a pain in the ass to use.

 

Buy all the parts that are actually going on the car and fit them. I lucked into gennie fenders and a door for my '55. They are on it now as I fit the new rockers up.

 

If you are using new doors they should be fit from the start! A and B pillars are fixed points BUT, they may not be the same on each side, same with the repop doors!

NO on the clecos, they will not keep it aligned. Just make similar tabs and tack weld in place

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